lct Posted June 2, 2010 Share #61 Posted June 2, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I want to know about these problems, and prospective buyers should know it too... Of couse they (we) should. Trying to hide the truth is the worst disservice we can do not only to people reading us here but also to Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 2, 2010 Posted June 2, 2010 Hi lct, Take a look here Faulty M9 Returned... This is my letter to Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Rick Posted June 2, 2010 Share #62 Posted June 2, 2010 Sam, I will say, you are an amazing photographer. I would think Leica would certainly have you in their rolodex of Leica photographers they's like to keep happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 2, 2010 Share #63 Posted June 2, 2010 Sam, I will say, you are an amazing photographer. I would think Leica would certainly have you in their rolodex of Leica photographers they's like to keep happy. I'd agree with that. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 2, 2010 Share #64 Posted June 2, 2010 How would the camera know? Maybe it is writing faulty files that can't be read. If the fault was identified and solved there wouldn't be a need for the camera to notify you that it isn't storing images. First things first. Personally, I wish the camera would warn me when it is writing pictures that suck. Of course the problem should be solved. Separately all the camera has to do after it "writes" files to the card is to check if they are there. Write verification is not exactly new computer technology. It shouldn't clear a file from the buffer until it verifies the file has been written via a simple byte count off the card or a more advanced technique if that won't slow things down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted June 3, 2010 Share #65 Posted June 3, 2010 Sam did you really say "the bleating fatwas of the Leica Taliban" Good comeback On the positive side all of the people contributing to this thread do genuinely hope that your camera problem is resolved speedily, I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 3, 2010 Share #66 Posted June 3, 2010 Of course the problem should be solved. Separately all the camera has to do after it "writes" files to the card is to check if they are there. Write verification is not exactly new computer technology. It shouldn't clear a file from the buffer until it verifies the file has been written via a simple byte count off the card or a more advanced technique if that won't slow things down. Alan, you have no idea at what stage the error is occurring. It may not be even making it to the buffer correctly to get dumped to the card. Have you opened a camera up while it was failing and checked to see if the buffer memory is even getting written to? Maybe there is a software error in the code that dumps the buffer. Maybe the error is before this and the camera doesn't even register a picture was taken. If, that is the case the camera may not even know it should be trying to do a write verification process. In other words, you have come up with a solution and you have no idea where the problem really is. Like I said, first things first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
storybrown Posted June 3, 2010 Share #67 Posted June 3, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) < . . . lost beneath the bleating fatwas of the Leica Taliban . . > Hoppyman is surely right -- this phrase is worth the whole thread - Sam, I hope your camera is fixed pronto & stays fixed good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted June 3, 2010 Share #68 Posted June 3, 2010 Even monkeys fall out of tree's.The fact that the M9 is new means everyone who has one is a betta tester:p. And lets face it , there is plently to go wrong with modern digitial camera's. I really think it's not really good thinking/ planning to go to a pro shoot with only one body:confused:. Part of being a pro is having a back up. Period. Even having a Leica film body would have let you finish the shoot with a minimum of egg on your face. The client would just have to wait to see the results untill you got to the lab. Blaming leica for your bad planning with a very new digital camera is lame. Especially since it had failed on you before. Expectation exceed outcome at times. So chalk that up for a lesson learned. As far as posting your letter on the Leica Forum:rolleyes:, well it's a free country but is a little short on tact if you ask me. Im sure the good folks at Lecia will make it right. Posting your letter is not going to help your situatiuon get resolved any sooner. As far as demanding a new camera. Good luck with that. Gregory Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted June 3, 2010 Share #69 Posted June 3, 2010 Nikkor AIS, you should really re-read the original post and visit Sam's web site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted June 3, 2010 Share #70 Posted June 3, 2010 Okay, so I re-read the original post. I stand by my statements on my post. Gregory Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthury Posted June 3, 2010 Share #71 Posted June 3, 2010 NOTHING went wrong mine for the last 2 months since I got mine and I have been shooting everyday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mc_k Posted June 3, 2010 Share #72 Posted June 3, 2010 My M9 is the only camera I have that uses SD. They are not used anywhere else. any of them used in your M8? I am sure that sharing cards, even with careful reformatting, is associated with similar problems. Also, I am sure that corruption problems are not "rare," as some have suggested above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted June 3, 2010 Share #73 Posted June 3, 2010 Okay, so I re-read the original post. I stand by my statements on my post. Your post is a reprimand about having a backup, but the original post is about the camera giving no warning that it is not recording images. This could be a serious problem for any photographer, even a very experienced one with multiple backups. If the problem is not apparent, you won't reach for your backup. If you recognize the problem 20 minutes after it starts, you may have blown the assignment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 3, 2010 Share #74 Posted June 3, 2010 Your post is a reprimand about having a backup, but the original post is about the camera giving no warning that it is not recording images. This could be a serious problem for any photographer, even a very experienced one with multiple backups. If the problem is not apparent, you won't reach for your backup. If you recognize the problem 20 minutes after it starts, you may have blown the assignment. What would be nice to know is if the images actually showed up on the LCD immediately after they were taken but then failed to be written. If so, the only way you'd know there was a problem would be to review images off of the card. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted June 3, 2010 Share #75 Posted June 3, 2010 Out of interest I just tested this with my M9. With no card fitted you get an intial warning display on the LCD only. In continuous or single advance the shutter will operate and the buffer actually retains 5 frames but does not indicate buffer full after that. You actually don't get the Buffer full hesitation if you shoot a continuous sequence with no card fitted. In single advance the previews are displayed as you shoot (if you have preview selected) I deleted all five images and then got the No Valid Image to Display message. I then fitted the card and the camera then wrote the five images to the card. Of course if you have left the card out and not seen the initial warning when you turn the camera on, then this is unlikely to help you unless you are very lucky and realise your mistakes in the first few frames. I can certainly see that this could trap you if you DO have a card fitted but that intermittent fault that Sam has described has happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted June 3, 2010 Share #76 Posted June 3, 2010 My post is about "more" than just being reprimand about not having a second body. And that is like so basic it really shouldnt need to be said to a working pro. Better to have it and not need it than to need it, and be with out:cool:. But it sounds to me that he problems with the camera/cards for some time and continued to use it because the problem was intermittent. If ask me keeping a camera like that is just asking for trouble. Like I said even monkeys fall out of tree's. But if ithe monkey keeps falling out of the tree, one must question the judgement of the one placing it back in the tree. And writing a letter and returning the camera is fine. Im not sure what is gained by posting that letter on a public forum especailly the Lecia forum. I never liked those little SD cards:rolleyes:, they seem very...flimsy. When I tested a M9 I was surprised that it used them . I thought those little cards where for point a shoots( Now Im just having fun) I very greatfull that my 2 Nikon D3 have dual card slots using the bigger flash cards. If one dies or becomes corrupted the other is there for a back up. I guess even Nikon thinks having a back up is a good idea:p. Gregory Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper UK Posted June 3, 2010 Author Share #77 Posted June 3, 2010 Mckeough_K- I probably did use one or two in the M8. But I am definitely having problems with at least 6 (2 Lexar 8GB and 4 Sandisk 4GB) new ones that have only been used in the M9. Sam Faulkner, Photographer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted June 3, 2010 Share #78 Posted June 3, 2010 Why does every complaint have to be side tracked into a debate about the OTP s approach? There is great benefit to forum members in identifying as early as possible .... any faults encountered with the M9. I always read these as a single experience and want to know two things (1) has anyone else had this issue and (2) how have they resolved it. I am willing to listen to some complaining to better understand the issues. It is useful to remind the OTP of best practices to avoid similar issues ..for example are you maintaining a full charge in the battery. Step one on many fault types is put in a fresh battery. You can get incomplete writes to the card if the battery is drained while shooting. If you shoot frequently ,travel a lot and are demanding of your equipments performance you will encountered some of the issues being identified on the forum. The fact that the M9 is expensive unfortunately doesn t guarantee flawless performance. IMHO you need a backup plan if your shooting is very important to you. I have had the problems identified on several occasions with my M9 s ..with both Lexar and SanDisk cards . I never had any card issues of any kind with the M8 and the 2gb SD cards of several brands. With the introduction of the M8.2 and one of the software releases...I had corruption of the several cards. These were thought to be associated with a rundown battery and/or using your cards in multiple cameras.. even with reformatting. The situation the OTP describes can be caused by a rundown battery(or other electrical problems) and incomplete writes to the card. I have cleared this on some cards by reformatting using the OS X disk utility and then reformatting the card in the M9. This has worked in all but one card failure. I have also had brand new cards that required reformatting in disk utility. Once I realized how sensitive the M8/M9 is to having a full charge ....I simply carry more batteries and cards when shooting. I make it a habit of changing them out when I stop for a coffee. The battery will generally last longer than I do . These threads have been very valuable to me in understanding how to get the most out of my M s . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 3, 2010 Share #79 Posted June 3, 2010 Those Aid Agency images are some of the best I've seen from any photographer on this forum - truly inspiring and moving. Best of luck with your camera-problems - let's hope your further clarification can help bring the debate back to the real issues. For the programmers on the forum: wouldn't it be possible for the camera to read back some kind of checksum at the end of writing to the card, just to ensure that the data was at least nominally complete? An audible signal could sound if any problems were encountered * (Sorry I missed Alan's post suggesting this already - in fact it seems like I missed a whole page of responses - mostly backtracking - that were added since last night. Popular thread.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted June 3, 2010 Share #80 Posted June 3, 2010 Sam, I will say, you are an amazing photographer. I would think Leica would certainly have you in their rolodex of Leica photographers they's like to keep happy. +1 to that! I think that what's happened here for me is that I felt that a strategic error had been made by the OP to put up their letter to Leica before Leica had had a chance to reply, so I went down one of the possible tracks available to me... (Terry Pratchett calls this "the wrong trouser leg of history"...). Later comments + Sam's outstandingly good photography put things in perspective - I really respect the work shown on his website. So kudos where kudos is due... AND - I still think there are ways of managing your relationship with a supplier that have better chances of working than others. Heigh ho... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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