h00ligan Posted June 1, 2010 Share #1 Posted June 1, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) No this isn't just about AF. I'm fine with realizing I have a lot to learn regarding zone focusing.. the frustrating thing to me is all the other slowness issues. Slow focusing can almost be a good thing in many instances, to be more considered.. but the fast buffer overrun, review times, and shot to shot time seemed to me to be very limiting when I tried to shoot on Sunday. Not trying to shoot the same subject but quickly switch from one to another. ( no, a dslr wouldn't have been better because it would have been huge and I couldn't have gone unnoticed, only one person 'caught' me shooting when I was zone focusing from the hip). I understand this may be user deficiency, so this is not a thread complaining but rather asking for help in understanding if my method is wrong, or if there are any workarounds. I went to Comicon.. never been before but thought it would be interesting to document. A lot of people in outragous costumes, stars passing by, busy busy busy. Even trying to zone focus at 5.6 and 3ft with continuous shooting on seemed very very difficult to me. In contrast, the gf1 could autofocus and had more success doing so than my zone focusing attempts. Perhaps I need to read more and better understand zone focusing.. or learn to gauge my distances better. Do other x1 users find this an issue? Do you have faith in firmware remedies? Is there something I can do to maximize speed? Some say macro is faster, but I am not sure I see how adding range to the focus is faster... I am not sure why the write speed is so slow.. I would think the controller, which is not something that is usually fixed much with a firmware update, although a touch up is possible I suppose. I adore this camera, but it most certainly is not the cam for capturing decisive moments (perhaps due to my limited skill), even down to the squishy shutter release(it rolls around) and imho causes more camera shake than say, the gf1 (more of an issue too given the 1/30 detent is less than the shutter speed rule for sharp photos).. the epl1 is similar but not quite as squishy. Landscapes and posed portraits with adults seem ok..except the necessity to crop due to minimal focusing distance (or wide angle distortion) would seem to limit print size (unless I am missing something). I would love some advice on maximizing success, or guidance in where I am going wrong. Thanks so much for reading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 1, 2010 Posted June 1, 2010 Hi h00ligan, Take a look here X1 - how do you deal with speed issues?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
leicashot Posted June 1, 2010 Share #2 Posted June 1, 2010 Personally I like this shortcoming. This is a camera made for documentary purposes. Documentary work requires anticipation of events and subjects actions. Prefocusing is the key as well as manual exposure and being prepared for those decisive moments. The better you become at this the more time you'll have to see those decisive moments coming. The only feature IM missing is the ability to lock the focus at a certain distance after pre focusing allowing me to take my finger off the shutter if needed. Other than that the less I rely on the camera the more I rely on myself and my ability to make shots happen. With this approach one will find many more decisive moments coming their way. PS: the decisive moment is about making good decisions when seeing a great photographic moment, not relying on the camera's ability to think for you and the x1 allows me the freedom to work in this way. All the best Kristian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share #3 Posted June 1, 2010 Thank you for the response, much appreciated. I wonder if you could detail the differences between zone focusing and prefocusing. The latter seems to me to say, ok, set to MF, focus to say, 6 ft (where you think the subject may be), then go back to af so it hunts less. Is that accurate? It seems in some things I've read zone focusing and prefocusing are used as interchangeable terms, but not in all places. Again, many thanks for the response. I do think that the x1 has caused me to be more aware of the surroundings and anticipate better, certainly something on which I need more practise. MFT was a good starting point for that as well, but with faster af. Sunday was a great day for me to actually practise photography, not just take pictures.. and I was generally happy with aiming in zone focusing. That said, the write times to me are still an issue as they tend to lock the camera up for quite a long time comparatively to other cams, even pocket compacts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicashot Posted June 1, 2010 Share #4 Posted June 1, 2010 Prefocusing is when you focus on a subject at a similar or close to the same distance as where you subject will be when you want to capture the moment. Just focus and hold that until the subject reaches the same distance to camera then fire. Zone focusing is when you use a distance scale on the lens to determine what aperture you need to get a certain focus range in sharp focus at the time of exposure. Considering that the X1 doesn't have the zone focus scale it isn't easy to guess unless you practise with various combinations of focus distance and aperture value. Considering that the sensor isn't full frame their is a bit more latitude but you must be very precise especially when shooting at closer distances and wider apertures from 2.8-4. That is why I wish it had a way to lock focus at a certain distance after using the AF to acquire the correct focus. Using manual focus in this way is too fiddley. In regards to the buffer, try timing your shots better and being more selective of what you shoot will also help you achieve a higher keeper rate too. Hope this helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share #5 Posted June 1, 2010 Yes, thank you for the considered response.. i suppose practise is in order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicashot Posted June 1, 2010 Share #6 Posted June 1, 2010 Yes, thank you for the considered response.. i suppose practise is in order. See my website under 'features' where most of the work has been done with Leica rangefinders in full manual where I've pretty much used the approaches I told you about except in manual focus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippa Posted June 1, 2010 Share #7 Posted June 1, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Now that the early glow of ownership is wearing thin , the only speed issue that bothers me is that of focusing. I've just returned from a week in Croatia and I was glad to have my GF-1 with me too. The X1 is not a camera for spontaneous moments and the idea of leaving the camera switched on in zone focus mode doesn't appeal to me given the limited battery life. Perhaps a firmware fix will improve the issue but until then it remains a wonderful niche product not the ultimate high quality travel camera I'd hoped for. Still love the image quality though. Perhaps the camera could default the lens to the hyperfocal distance in manual focus mode if an aperture were selected ; that might be useful to me. Let's hope Leica are listening:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted June 1, 2010 Share #8 Posted June 1, 2010 Nice tones in that image, Nippa. Making a virtue out of slowness seems a backhanded compliment. More focussing speed would be welcome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted June 1, 2010 Share #9 Posted June 1, 2010 The X1 is slow in every way, and for serious photography, it cannot be considered a solution to every problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share #10 Posted June 1, 2010 Thanks for the feedback! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest badbob Posted June 1, 2010 Share #11 Posted June 1, 2010 The X1 is slow in every way, and for serious photography, it cannot be considered a solution to every problem. Funny, this. Actually, for serious photography (whatever that is?) the X1 is probably not the solution to hardly any problem, since a good DSLR will beat it at every turn. With the X1 you have two things going for you: 1) Smallest size and weight for an APS-C sensor, and 2) Leica qualities. To a typical high-caliber photo amateur or professional, these two points would produce a shrug and an "eh?" But to some of us who have the patience, we'll score some photos that the DSLR users would envy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicashot Posted June 1, 2010 Share #12 Posted June 1, 2010 Funny, this. Actually, for serious photography (whatever that is?) the X1 is probably not the solution to hardly any problem, since a good DSLR will beat it at every turn. With the X1 you have two things going for you: 1) Smallest size and weight for an APS-C sensor, and 2) Leica qualities. To a typical high-caliber photo amateur or professional, these two points would produce a shrug and an "eh?" But to some of us who have the patience, we'll score some photos that the DSLR users would envy. Well put Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share #13 Posted June 1, 2010 Ladies and Gents, I really wasn't trying to slag off the device or cause an argument. I was only, as a new owner, wondering if there were things of which I was unaware or areas in which I could practise to make the most of the device and overcome some obvious shortcomings. Seeking advice from those who have had the deice longer than myself. Many thanks for positive contributions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted June 1, 2010 Share #14 Posted June 1, 2010 Funny, this. Actually, for serious photography (whatever that is?) the X1 is probably not the solution to hardly any problem, since a good DSLR will beat it at every turn. With the X1 you have two things going for you: 1) Smallest size and weight for an APS-C sensor, and 2) Leica qualities. To a typical high-caliber photo amateur or professional, these two points would produce a shrug and an "eh?" But to some of us who have the patience, we'll score some photos that the DSLR users would envy. Remember, I am a X1 user and I love it. And you can diss the term serious photography (not casual kid and dog / cat photography) all you want, but if you rely on the X1 for all types of photography in all situations, you will be missing out. I'm not being a snob. However, any camera can produce results, under the right conditions, that people will envy... just remember that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicashot Posted June 1, 2010 Share #15 Posted June 1, 2010 Yes the x1 is not an all rounder like the canon g11 and IM glad it's not. I bought it for what it can do which is exactly what I need for what I'll be using it for. My Nikon D3s can do the rest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest badbob Posted June 1, 2010 Share #16 Posted June 1, 2010 Remember, I am a X1 user and I love it. And you can diss the term serious photography (not casual kid and dog / cat photography) all you want, but if you rely on the X1 for all types of photography in all situations, you will be missing out. I'm not being a snob. However, any camera can produce results, under the right conditions, that people will envy... just remember that. Without making any comment on the actual experience of using "other" cameras, or their suitability, or comparing them to the X1, my comments about the two features are what drives my current shooting, mostly with just the X1, and occasionally I take along the little Canon with the big zoom in case I see a bird fly near... I've been spoiled for years with zooms and superzooms - never had any use for SLR's - so what I've been missing all this time is the kind of image the X1 can produce. So it hasn't been easy - it does take a lot of practice and effort with the X1, and I believe it pays off with excellent results. The odd thing is, I don't think I could reproduce those results with any camera/lens combination that costs less than $2 thousand dollars, which in my view makes the X1 a pretty good deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted June 1, 2010 Share #17 Posted June 1, 2010 badbob, I think we can agree on something... the X1 is our most used camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted June 2, 2010 Share #18 Posted June 2, 2010 Now that the early glow of ownership is wearing thin , the only speed issue that bothers me is that of focusing. I've just returned from a week in Croatia and I was glad to have my GF-1 with me too. The X1 is not a camera for spontaneous moments and the idea of leaving the camera switched on in zone focus mode doesn't appeal to me given the limited battery life. Perhaps a firmware fix will improve the issue but until then it remains a wonderful niche product not the ultimate high quality travel camera I'd hoped for. Still love the image quality though. Perhaps the camera could default the lens to the hyperfocal distance in manual focus mode if an aperture were selected ; that might be useful to me. Let's hope Leica are listening:) Can you comment on IQ between the gf1 and x1? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippa Posted June 2, 2010 Share #19 Posted June 2, 2010 Hi Tom , simple answer really. Compared to the excellent Lumix 20mm pancake... 1.Resolution about the same 2.To my mind the Leica gives a softer more agreeable out of focus effect ( I hate that silly false word BOKEH!! ) 3.Slightly desaturated colours in Leica jpeg sometimes almost a creamy look 4.More contrast ,sharper and , well , I say "wow" more than I'm used to with the GF-1. When I read the various reviews , looked at DPReview sample images and saw the lens chart results, I had expected little or no difference between X1 and GF-1 shots. For me that difference is worth the cost of the camera and shows in every shot blown up to poster size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolPixeler Posted June 2, 2010 Share #20 Posted June 2, 2010 Yes the x1 is not an all rounder like the canon g11 and IM glad it's not. I bought it for what it can do which is exactly what I need for what I'll be using it for. My Nikon D3s can do the rest I am in line with you "leicashot". Michel. My X1 gallery on flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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