M8 test: Heliar 15mm without UV/IR cut vs. with UV/IR cut (leica & marumi)

[iek1968]

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Hi all,

I guess this is my first post, got a new Leica M8 black with Zeiss 25mm, 90mm cron, Heliar 15mm and enjoy them a lot. I had already sold my D300, could never get pleasant colors, and I kept my two S5 bodies. In my last trip I used both the S5 and the M8, next trip will be M8 only and will see how it goes. For me, it looks very promising, I am an outdoor photog. who takes his time when shooting, tired of lugging the DSLRs around.

 

Today I received my Marumi UV/IR cut filter and I just completed a test with the Heliar, coded as 16mm WATE. WB was set to daylight and lens detection to On.

 

Image 1

Left side: No filter. Right side: Marumi uv/ir cut.

 

Image 2

Left side: Leica uv/ir cut. Right side: Marumi uv/ir cut.

 

My conclusions so far: I will never shoot without a UV/IR cut filter. Shooting w/o it reminds me of the yellowish Nikon greens, which i did not like.

 

Marumi and Leica UV/IR cut filters are practically the same color-wise. This was expected, as Leica used this company to produce its uv/ir cut filters. The marumi ring is of lower quality but still ok.

 

Thanks for reading,

Take care!

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[Tonysaurus]

Thank's for this, I've always been curious. I'm assuming polarising filters are pointless at such a wide angle?

[jamesk8752]

Thank's for this, I've always been curious. I'm assuming polarising filters are pointless at such a wide angle?

 

Perhaps for darkening large expanses of sky, but a polarizing filter can still help to "pop" color saturation of smaller areas in the image.

[farnz]

An interesting comparison, iek 1968, but why have you cropped picture 2?

 

Pete.

[iek1968]

Because my finger was in the pic with the leica filter...

I have a 67mm Leica filter and I had to hold it in front of the Heliar, so I got finger-caused vignetting...

[farnz]

Because my finger was in the pic with the leica filter...

I have a 67mm Leica filter and I had to hold it in front of the Heliar, so I got finger-caused vignetting...

Fair enough. (Been there, done that ...)

 

Pete.

[aum235]

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@iek1968 :

Hi, I am new on this forum.

I don't actually have a Leica, but I'm on this forum because I'm looking for some info about one specific thing, and it seems that you might be able to give me an answer.

 

You are using a wide angle lens (15mm) as I can read - please let me know if I am wrong, because I know very little to Leica systems.

For what I understand and have read here and there, a 15mm lens on an M8 with a crop factor of 1,33 corresponds to a rough 20mm on a FF 24x36.

So that means that your Heliar 15mm is clearly a WA lens, right ?

 

Then...

You are using a MarumiUV/IR block filter.

Question(s) :

 

1/ Is this a colored filter or a clear transparent (colorless) filter when looking with your eyes through it from the back side (the side that would be attached to the lens) at a right angle (90° straight through).

 

2/ If it's a colored filter then I guess the tint is a reddish or bluish hue, right ? How slight or intense is it ?

 

3/ If it's clear transparent when looking through it at a right angle, does it become reddish or bluish when looked from an angle ? And if so, does this show on the picture at wide angle ?

 

These may sound like strange and picky questions. But the reason is this :

I'm having my new DSLR modded to see full spectrum (IR+VIS+UV), so that I can freely choose between IR or visible light pictures, depending on which type of filter that I apply on the front of the lens.

So for the UV/IR block filter, for the B&W or Schott or such other brands, it's

1/ either a colored filter (like the one originally placed on the sensor) in which case I will see a colored image in the view finder.

2/ or a colorless filter at right angle but with a hue beyond a certain angle, with then the risk of a color vignetting with pictures at WA.

 

But I found no data really of any sort with the Marumi filter, which seems to be a quite new product on the market as well.

And since it is also quite unexpensive compared to the other brands, I'm certainly curious to know.

 

Please please please, iek1968, give me your feedback on this question, it would greatly help me in choosing my filter.

 

Thanks and best regards,

William

[jaapv]

William, the problem with all IR cut filters, irrespective of brand, is that they are interference filters, so the wavelength blocked shifts with the angle of incidence and so does the colour looking through, or at it. But, as a DSLR has a longer lens register distance than a rangefinder camera, the angles are far less extreme, even with wideangle lenses, so the experience with an M8 has no pertinence for a DSLR. As I said, there is no essential difference between any brand for IR cut filters and I would advise you to use for instance a B&W 486 filter, as these are easily available.You will see no cyan drift up to 28 or possibly 21 mm lenses.

[farnz]

... But I found no data really of any sort with the Marumi filter, which seems to be a quite new product on the market as well.

 

Thanks and best regards,

William

William,

 

Here is the Transmission characteristic that is supplied with a Marumi UV/IR filter.

 

Pete.

 

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[iek1968]

@iek1968 :

 

 

1/ Is this a colored filter or a clear transparent (colorless) filter when looking with your eyes through it from the back side (the side that would be attached to the lens) at a right angle (90° straight through).

 

2/ If it's a colored filter then I guess the tint is a reddish or bluish hue, right ? How slight or intense is it ?

 

3/ If it's clear transparent when looking through it at a right angle, does it become reddish or bluish when looked from an angle ? And if so, does this show on the picture at wide angle ?

 

Thanks and best regards,

William

 

1) colorless

3) cyan (bluish), same as the sensor sees it at an angle without firmware correction (filter on lens but lens detection off). On the other extreme, an overcorrection leads to the dreaded magenta corners.

William what jaap and Pete said is correct. These filters we use on the M8 have the same effect, consider the Marumi a 486 filter, their curves look identical.

 

Take care

[aum235]

iek1968, Jaapv & Farnz, thank you all very much for your answers.

 

Jaapv, when you talk about 21 or 28 mm lenses, you mean when mounted on a FF24x36 sensor cam, right ?

So translated in APS-C sensor size, which is what I have (and which is most common in nowaday's DSLRs), that would be 18mm in equivalency to 28mm in FF size.

 

Farnz, thanks for the chart you showed about marumi's transmission curve.

Seems like there's really a lot of red transmitted by this filter though, no ?

 

A typical colored filter (from an angle or not, as it seems) would be the X-nite CC1 filter from Maxmax.com, which they recommand for use on cams that have had their IR cut filter removed.

And when you look at the CC1 chart, it does seem to not be as intense in the red spectrum as the Marumi is.

[farnz]

.... Farnz, thanks for the chart you showed about marumi's transmission curve.

Seems like there's really a lot of red transmitted by this filter though, no ?

...

Well, yes, but you want all of the red and none of the infrared don't you? (If we accept that

infrared starts at about 700 nm) then all of the infrared is blocked.

 

Pete.