Guest JoanMarianne Posted May 4, 2010 Share #1 Posted May 4, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have seen an ad here in the UK listing a 1943 5cm Elmar engraved "Luftwaffe Eigentum". Does anyone know what this signifies? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 4, 2010 Posted May 4, 2010 Hi Guest JoanMarianne, Take a look here WW2 Elmar. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
UliWer Posted May 4, 2010 Share #2 Posted May 4, 2010 The engraving means that the lens belonged to the nazi-german airforce during the war. Though you can be sure that most of such engravings on leica cameras or lenses are faked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted May 4, 2010 Share #3 Posted May 4, 2010 Would "Luftwaffen Eigentum" be more authentic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted May 4, 2010 Share #4 Posted May 4, 2010 I have never seen such a lens (and wouldn't touch one). The illustrations given by Lager I (p. 83-86) all show the engraving "Luftwaffen - Eigentum" (long hyphen between the two words, and certainly "Luftwaffen -" which is grammatically correct). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted May 4, 2010 Share #5 Posted May 4, 2010 Thanks, I certainly agree "Luftwaffen - Eigentum" to be grammatically correct. Post #8 of http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/114404-leica-135-4-tele-elmar-m.html#post1213163 shows a TE 135 with "Bundeswehr". Is that for real or a fake? Regards, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted May 5, 2010 Share #6 Posted May 5, 2010 Can't tell much about the "Bundeswehr" item. Though I assume engravings by the "Bundeswehr" are much less attractive for certain circles than those for the nazi army, so there wasn't much motivation to fake them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted May 5, 2010 Share #7 Posted May 5, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Vielen Dank, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 5, 2010 Share #8 Posted May 5, 2010 Thanks, I certainly agree "Luftwaffen - Eigentum" to be grammatically correct. Post #8 of http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/114404-leica-135-4-tele-elmar-m.html#post1213163 shows a TE 135 with "Bundeswehr". Is that for real or a fake? Regards, K-H. Difficult it's a fake: the "Bundeswehr" - engraved items are (of course) postwar equipment for German Polizei : as Uliwer told, they are much less sought after than "war" items... not only in photo gear, there is a specific interest in some collectors for anything that belongs to the Military field (cars, bikes, guns, binoculars, dresses...) a passion that, personally, I do not understand so much... but is a fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted May 5, 2010 Share #9 Posted May 5, 2010 One minor correction, "Bundeswehr" is not a police but the name for the Armed Forces of Germany. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 5, 2010 Share #10 Posted May 5, 2010 One minor correction, "Bundeswehr" is not a police but the name for the Armed Forces of Germany. Sorry , you're right... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted May 5, 2010 Share #11 Posted May 5, 2010 I have seen an ad here in the UK listing a 1943 5cm Elmar engraved "Luftwaffe Eigentum".Does anyone know what this signifies? Hi Joan I'd go for a M mount f/3.5 for photos, or late post '93 f/2.8... The CV f/2.5 LTM is also compact. If you want an uncoated one I'd pay more for one that was not scratched... Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoanMarianne Posted May 6, 2010 Share #12 Posted May 6, 2010 Thanks, Noel. The lens belongs to someone else; I do have an uncoated 50mm Elmar from 1939. I am thinking of getting an uncoated Elmar 35mm to go with it. Uncoated seems desirable, since the later coated versions can develop breakdown of the coating, as I understand. But a lot of people recommend the Voigtlander, which I have not tried, so far, although I think they do a single-coated version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted May 7, 2010 Share #13 Posted May 7, 2010 Hi Joan Not seen a single coated CV f/2.5, the M mount Elmars have much better ergonomics, the post '94, are really sharp. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted May 7, 2010 Share #14 Posted May 7, 2010 The lens in question is described as follows: Leitz 5cm f3.5 Elmar, "Luftwaffen-Eigentum" engraving. Condition 5/E (optics slightly marked). Factory records show this lens was delivered to Berlin on 02.02.43 under contract No. 9438 ... and it is offered by a very reputable dealer at what appears to be a fair price considering its scarcity. He would probably have checked its authenticity via these two books. I bought my own copies of these two books from the very same dealer. Screwmount cameras with military engravings (WWII) ... Dott Luigi Cane Wehrmacht Leica ... James L Lager Contract 9438 lists just 17 lenses all with individual SNs commencing 58XXXX thus the lens can be very easily authenticated. This is my own WW2 Luftwaffen camera and it has been independently and expertly examined to prove its authenticity ... and the serial numbers of both the body and lens, and the contract numbers, appear in the above "Screwmount cameras ... " book. The body SN appears in Lager's book. Lager's book does not list all individual lens SNs but does list contract numbers and dates. The above books list the known contract numbers and SNs but the records from which they were complied were incomplete - thus there are many genuine WWII military Leica cameras for which there are no means of determining authenticity. There are also many fakes originating from eg Russia. Best wishes dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted May 7, 2010 Share #15 Posted May 7, 2010 Thanks, I certainly agree "Luftwaffen - Eigentum" to be grammatically correct. Post #8 of http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/114404-leica-135-4-tele-elmar-m.html#post1213163 shows a TE 135 with "Bundeswehr". Is that for real or a fake? Regards, K-H. That is my lens and it is part of the outfit described here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/64347-have-acquired-olive-green-m3-outfit.html The lens cannot be authenticated because unlike the body and accessories , there is no actual BUND number and TTBOMK, unlike the olive green military cameras, there are no records of lens SNs issued but I have no reason to think it is faked. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted May 7, 2010 Share #16 Posted May 7, 2010 I have seen an ad here in the UK listing a 1943 5cm Elmar engraved "Luftwaffe Eigentum".Does anyone know what this signifies? It means 'airforce property' dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted May 7, 2010 Share #17 Posted May 7, 2010 Difficult it's a fake: the "Bundeswehr" - engraved items are (of course) postwar equipment for German Polizei : as Uliwer told, they are much less sought after than "war" items... not only in photo gear, there is a specific interest in some collectors for anything that belongs to the Military field (cars, bikes, guns, binoculars, dresses...) a passion that, personally, I do not understand so much... but is a fact. Post war military Leica cameras are very sought after - witness recent prices at Westlicht. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted May 8, 2010 Share #18 Posted May 8, 2010 That is my lens and it is part of the outfit described here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/64347-have-acquired-olive-green-m3-outfit.html The lens cannot be authenticated because unlike the body and accessories , there is no actual BUND number and TTBOMK, unlike the olive green military cameras, there are no records of lens SNs issued but I have no reason to think it is faked. dunk dunk, That seems to be a great outfit. All the labels seem so official. Thanks, K-H. PS: A long time ago I was drafted into that organization. Unfortunately they didn't issue me a Leica system.:D:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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