Beware of Ebay seller [edited by Moderator]

[adli]

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In January, I bought an old 50 Summilux from a seller at ebay called [edited by Moderator. Vendor not here to defend himself]. It was listed as in mint condition.

 

At the time I received it, I had only a film Leica (M6) as I had sold my M8 and was waiting for the M9, so I was unable to imediate check the state of the lens other than the fact that the optics looked as good as described. However, after a couple of weeks, I realized that the lens was severly out of focus. With severly, I mean about 5cm on 1m distance. This renders the lens completely unusable. I though this should be easey to fix, and in February, I sendt it off to Solms for focus adjustment.

 

This morning, I receive this message from Leica: "Modification not possible.

Unfortunately we can not carry out any repair action on this

product due to lack of parts. We have to return it unaltered.

Please excuse"

 

I have contacted the seller who claims to be a dealer in photographic equipment. he claims that he cannot take the lens back, after so long periode. It does not matter that the lens have being laying in Solms and that Leica says it is unrepairable.

 

The result is that I have an unusable lens, and since Leica sat on the lens for two month, Ebay does not handle any complaints (after 45 days it is impossible to complaint to Ebay).

 

The thing that really annoys be is that this guy calls himself a dealerin photographic equipment, is selling defect lenses as mint and gets away with it.

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[The_hog]

adli

 

I'm having the same experience with Solms. Sent an old Summilux 50mm #1946XXX (ca 1962) to them for CLA and minor fungus removal plus recoating, only to get this same answer. And they sure take their time sending things back. Been a month now since the message and the lens is not back.

[farnz]

Sorry to hear about your lens problem - no one needs that.

 

But I have to admit that in this instance I have a little bit of sympathy for the dealer because you, yourself, said that when you received the lens the condition of its optics looked as good as described. So if the dealer didn't have any way of optically checking the lens he would have thought, as you did, that the lens was fine.

 

If I was a dealer I would be reluctant to take a lens back after 4 months(?) because there's no telling what could have happened to it during this time (and I'm not in any way suggesting that you mis-handled it).

 

Unfortunately, in my book, it goes down as a case of 'caveat emptor' I'm afraid. Since it's "an old Summilux" and the lens looks to be in good condition then you may be able to generate some interest from a collector who is unlikely to want to use the lens. I recommend that you are open with a collector about the mis-focus problem though. You may not recover the price you paid for the lens but at least you'd get more than just disposing of it.

 

Is the lens insured?

 

Pete.

[wattsy]

Can you send it to DAG or a more local equivalent? It sounds possibly like Solms just can't be arsed to deal with your lens.

[adli]

Can you send it to DAG or a more local equivalent? It sounds possibly like Solms just can't be arsed to deal with your lens.

 

Actually, the seller suggested that I sent it to DAG at my own expence (for a lens that was damaged when he sold it to me!).

 

My first move will be to try to get money back from my credit card company which Paypal I use for Paypal payments. If that does not succed, then I'll try DAG.

[wilfredo]

Good luck with that. Keep us posted. It's guys like that that give E-bay a bad reputation. How was his feedback score?

 

When I shop on E-bay I like to ask questions of the seller just to get a sense of what type of person I am dealing with. You can learn a lot by the way they respond. If they don't bother to respond, they don't get my business. When it comes to lenses, a good question to ask is if they have tested the lens on a camera?

[andybarton]

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Sorry Wilfredo, I disagree. This is the buyer's problem, not the seller's.

 

If the buyer had an M6 to test the lens, he had little excuse for not checking the lens at the very first opportunity.

 

It is always the best advice to test a lens as soon as it arrives, either by running a roll of C41 through the camera and having that processed in an hour, or by using a digital body.

 

The fact that Solms are having problems servicing old lenses like yours is irrelevant. If you'd tested the lens on the day you'd received it, you may well have been able to reject it, and send it back for a full refund. That's an option that is no longer available to you.

 

A lesson learned, I'd say.

[Peyton Hoge]

 

At the time I received it, I had only a film Leica (M6) as I had sold my M8 and was waiting for the M9, so I was unable to imediate check the state of the lens other than the fact that the optics looked as good as described.

 

 

Why didn't you check it on your M6??

[NB23]

You had 45 days to claim.

Why should we beware of the seller?

[NB23]

Can you send it to DAG or a more local equivalent? It sounds possibly like Solms just can't be arsed to deal with your lens.

 

This happens a lot of times. Instead of fixing, they change the parts. And obviously, such old parts are unavailable. A repairman should be able to fix it.

[NB23]

Good luck with that. Keep us posted. It's guys like that that give E-bay a bad reputation. How was his feedback score?

 

When I shop on E-bay I like to ask questions of the seller just to get a sense of what type of person I am dealing with. You can learn a lot by the way they respond. If they don't bother to respond, they don't get my business. When it comes to lenses, a good question to ask is if they have tested the lens on a camera?

 

It's the people like you that harm eBay.

Ebay was a revolution in itself. Made me save about 50,000$ throughout the years and I sold for more then 200,000$

 

Scams? Only the Idiots get scammed. Please don't say I'm rude or anything since we both know that you can't get scammed on eBay if you follow the steps and pay with paypal. ebay offers great protections. You can also call the seller before paying just by asking eBay the private infos. There's a much, much slimmer chance to get scammed on ebay then on various FS forums that simply offer no protection at all.

 

The ones that get scammed are the ones that send checks, wire transfers, Western Union and such. They can only blame themselves. But unfortunately, there are always bleeding hearts that will blame ebay instead of themselves.

[johnnyj]

Okay, so let me see how that logic goes ...

If someone is dishonest and you don't have the wear-with-all to catch him initially then it's your fault that dishonesty was perpetrated on you and therefore you are the "bad" person.

In today's world of irresponsibility and double-speak that makes sense! You just naturally assume that everyone is dishonest and a lout and be ready to take the blame for their ability to cheat you.

Why am I a little testy about the subject? Well, someone on this forum sold me a "mint" R9, "just a little ding by the prism", lightly used, blah, blah, blah. Not quite. When I received the R9 I checked it out pretty thoroughly to include checking the flash mount on top. However, I forgot to check the flash connector on the front. A couple of months later I set up the flash equipment and guess what ... the flash connector on the front did not work! Sent the camera off to New Jersey and "guess what": some previous owner fried the flash connector. $300 later and I'm little miffed with people who speak in half truths and those who make excuses for their behavior, and leery of buying anything on this forum.

So I’m an idiot by your definition, huh?

I sympathize with you “adli” and join you in the naïve basic belief that people are as honest as oneself. Fools we are.

[ho_co]

Can you send it to DAG or a more local equivalent? It sounds possibly like Solms just can't be arsed to deal with your lens.

 

Ian, that's absurd. If Leica could fix it, they would. And they'd charge good money for the work.

 

Think about it: If a technician's screwdriver slips, he could damage a part that isn't available. And when you got the lens back, working perfectly, you'd hit the roof over the cosmetic damage and claim that Leica were a bunch of idiots.

 

Similarly, Leica returns a repaired product with a full one-year warranty. If they adjust the focusing mount but don't have a replacement part for some other section, they can't give the Leica guarantee.

 

I admit, I was surprised and annoyed when Leitz Canada told me they no longer had parts for my STEMAR, but I didn't blame them.

 

Leica does the best job on the market about repairing old equipment, so we're always surprised when they run out of parts for one of these.

 

Maybe they should pull a Microsoft? "After 4.Apr.2011 we will discontinue support for standard M8s. We will continue servicing upgraded M8s for six months after that date, and M8.2s for two years after that date."

[NB23]

You just prove what I was saying: friendly forums aren't safer then ebay (surprised?). And you should have thoroughly tested the camera asap.

[johnnyj]

Just to make the record straight: He sold the R9 to me on ebay but was from this forum! Why do I feel that the scammers are being defended here?

[NB23]

Just to make the record straight: He sold the R9 to me on ebay but was from this forum! Why do I feel that the scammers are being defended here?

 

Just to make the record Even straigter: you had 45 days to claim to paypal and ebay, two organizations that have thorough protection plans for cases just like this one.

 

No, really, what were you doing Instead of testing the camera?

[wilfredo]

Sorry Wilfredo, I disagree. This is the buyer's problem, not the seller's.

 

If the buyer had an M6 to test the lens, he had little excuse for not checking the lens at the very first opportunity.

 

It is always the best advice to test a lens as soon as it arrives, either by running a roll of C41 through the camera and having that processed in an hour, or by using a digital body.

 

The fact that Solms are having problems servicing old lenses like yours is irrelevant. If you'd tested the lens on the day you'd received it, you may well have been able to reject it, and send it back for a full refund. That's an option that is no longer available to you.

 

A lesson learned, I'd say.

 

If you want to avoid problems, my suggestions can be helpful. I've done plenty of buying and selling on Ebay and have only run into problems twice, thankfully nothing major. As a seller I make every effort to present the item truthfully and encourage questions. Any idiot can sell on Ebay, and you can smoke them out with a little sabby. Nothing is full proof, but some tactics are helpful.

 

My empathy remains with Adli.

[tobey bilek]

You should have tested it and returned if defective. That simple.

 

At this point DAG or Sherry or John at Focal Point Lens may be able to repair if they have a donor lens with correct parts or can manufacture something. I really think you have a good chance as these people are very resourseful. Solms simply says no parts because they will only use official procedures and parts.

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[k-hawinkler]

You should have tested it and returned if defective. That simple.

 

At this point DAG or Sherry or John at Focal Point Lens may be able to repair if they have a donor lens with correct parts or can manufacture something. I really think you have a good chance as these people are very resourseful. Solms simply says no parts because they will only use official procedures and parts.

 

Thanks for the info. That puts it in perspective.

 

K-H.

[adli]

When it comes to testing, I try it with my M6, but since I don't have a processing lab at home, it took me a week before I found out that the lens was out of focus. A few days later my M9 actually arrived so I could confirm it.

 

Then I agree that I should have returned the lens instead of sending it to Leica, but, a bit naive, I thought this should be an easy and quick fix by Leica. My big problem was that Leica sat on my lens for about wo month, so after sending the lens to Leica, I had no chance to return the lens by 45 days.

 

This does IMHO not mean that it is OK to sell crap on ebay. I could have done a few things smarter, but it was not me who sold a crappy lens and ratet it as mint.

 

I have also written the whole story to the seller, and quoted the message from Leica, but he just claims that it is not his problem that Leica sat on the lens for a long time and tells me to fix the lens at my own cost.

 

So lesson learned is be very careful with ebay, there are sellers there who sell equipment which is far from what they describe it as.

 

I still think a professional dealer should take the lens back as long as I can prove that except a few days, the lens have been at Leica since I bought it.