andybarton Posted April 2, 2010 Share #41 Â Posted April 2, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Andy I have not seen every message in this thread, but I haven't seen that anyone is claiming that they are owed a discount if they don't use their entitlement?? Â There was a hint above that someone felt a little disgruntled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 Hi andybarton, Take a look here Your Rights to Lightroom 3 as a Leica M9 Buyer. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted April 2, 2010 Share #42 Â Posted April 2, 2010 I think the link that Rolo is referring to is really for users of CS1 Photoshop, who will have no upgrade path at all come next week. So, now IS a good time for them... Â Agreed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted April 2, 2010 Share #43 Â Posted April 2, 2010 The FACT is that Stefan Daniel personally negotiated the supply contract with Adobe for LR2. It does not extend to LR3. The contract was in Adobe's interests to take revenue and secure an expanded market share bringing future Upgrade revenue. M9 customers pay for the facility within the purchase price. A new contract needs to be agreed and announced by Leica. Â Leica prefer to include 3rd party software as part of their product as they do not have their own, as have Nikon, Canon, Hasselblad, Phase etc. They will not provide out-of-date software, but it doesn't have to be LR3. Â There's no certainty that a TAN will be valid beyond the end of the contract and it's the customer's responsibility to take advantage of the facility whilst it's still available. ShyTot can you point out where this FACT is documented? It may be true, I don't know, but I have never seen this reported. Nothing in the documentation with my M9 specifies LR2 nor anything that I can find on the Leica Camera website. Differing opinons presented but only facts matter. Â You may well be correct on the validity of the TAN but it is very unclear how that could be implemented. By registration date of your M9 or S2 or X1? That would actively discourage Leica customers from registering their cameras. Remember that warranty is not dependant on registration nor is firmware update for example. Â Leica Camera moved to Adobe Photoshop Lightroom at least partly because their previous bundled product is marketed by a company that is now a direct competitor in the S2 market. Continuing that arrangement would have meant that the competitor would have been given the contact details of every Leica customer in that segment. Â Personally I applaud the change and do use and prefer the Adobe products. For that matter I already have CaptureOne as well anyway since I bought the M8 as well. I am simply hopeful that I will not need to pay for an upgrade to LR3. If it works out, that's fine. If not, I suppose that I could obtain the serial number and transfer that to another person, providing it complies with the Adobe EULA or use it on more computers than currently provided for by the EULA conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted April 2, 2010 Share #44 Â Posted April 2, 2010 I doubt that will happen Geoff. Â You've already been given your "free"/bundled software and no one has ever promised free upgrades too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted April 2, 2010 Share #45 Â Posted April 2, 2010 The discussion refers to later upgrades. Â Can we presume that the cost of Upgrades remain constant ? i.e. CS3 -> CS4 = CS3->CS5. If so, it'll make no difference when we buy. Â US readers might not be aware that UK customers pay twice as much for their Adobe products as US buyers. Something we've got used to and now accept without complaint. As average incomes are lower here, let's agree that it hits our pockets 3x as hard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted April 2, 2010 Share #46 Â Posted April 2, 2010 I think the link that Rolo is referring to is really for users of CS1 Photoshop, who will have no upgrade path at all come next week. So, now IS a good time for them, but could be the worst possible time for anyone with a later version... Â If a CS1 Photoshop user upgrades to CS4 today they are still likely to get stiffed for the upgrade to CS5 (and pay two for two upgrades in quick succession if they want CS5) unless Adobe adopts a retroactive grace period when they launch CS5 on April 12th. Is the combined price of two upgrades significantly less then the price of full CS5 Photoshop? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted April 2, 2010 Share #47 Â Posted April 2, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica Camera moved to Adobe Photoshop Lightroom at least partly because their previous bundled product is marketed by a company that is now a direct competitor in the S2 market. Continuing that arrangement would have meant that the competitor would have been given the contact details of every Leica customer in that segment. Â Capture One is the sales team's recommended software for the S2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdtrick Posted April 2, 2010 Share #48 Â Posted April 2, 2010 I am starting to really like Lightroom now. I did not warm up to it when it first came out but since I downloaded 2.61 it is great with the M9 and all my previous Nikon photos. I hope they do upgrade M9 users to version 3 but I will upgrade anyway. Now CS5 better have some really great stuff or else I am sticking to CS4... Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted April 2, 2010 Share #49  Posted April 2, 2010 If a CS1 Photoshop user upgrades to CS4 today they are still likely to get stiffed for the upgrade to CS5 (and pay two for two upgrades in quick succession if they want CS5) unless Adobe adopts a retroactive grace period when they launch CS5 on April 12th. Is the combined price of two upgrades significantly less then the price of full CS5 Photoshop?  Photoshop is about £500. Two upgrades will be less than £400 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted April 2, 2010 Share #50 Â Posted April 2, 2010 FWIW I did email Leica USA a while ago asking if I can wait and download LR3 and the reply was yes. The reply also stated the agreement was for two downloads per each M9 customer and I can even download once for Windows and once for Mac. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted April 2, 2010 Share #51 Â Posted April 2, 2010 LR users have always been allowed to use both Mac and PC versions, as the CD has both. Â John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted April 2, 2010 Share #52  Posted April 2, 2010 LR users have always been allowed to use both Mac and PC versions, as the CD has both  It's also standard for the same serial number to work on both Mac and PC downloaded versions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanyasi Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share #53 Â Posted April 2, 2010 I still have not received a reply from Leica, which is not necessarily a problem given the holiday weekend. Â I am amazed at the level of confusion and the differing answers reflected in the posts. The bottom line: Leica should post a clear statement on their website defining user rights. If LR 3 rights are in negotiation or unsettled at this time, they should just say so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander †Posted April 2, 2010 Share #54  Posted April 2, 2010 Photoshop is about £500. Two upgrades will be less than £400  Until a couple of years ago you could upgrade any full version of PS to the latest. When Adobe announced PSCS3 they also announced that they were restricting upgrades to only 3 previous versions. I was still able to upgrade my PS5 to PSCS2 which was at the time still the current and available product. As PSCS3 had been announced I was allowed a free upgrade to PSCS3 only paying £14 for the CD.  It should work the same this time. If PSCS4 is available for shipping but PSCS5 announced (but not available for shipping) then just upgrade to the PSCS4 and you should get PSCS5 for free. No need to purchase two upgrades and PSCS users should be able to upgrade to PSCS5 within this short window of time with only one upgrade fee.  Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted April 2, 2010 Share #55  Posted April 2, 2010 I still have not received a reply from Leica, which is not necessarily a problem given the holiday weekend. I am amazed at the level of confusion and the differing answers reflected in the posts. The bottom line: Leica should post a clear statement on their website defining user rights. If LR 3 rights are in negotiation or unsettled at this time, they should just say so.  You are right, Leica should say what is going to happen, especially as LR3 seems to be so much better than LR2. But whichever way it works out it usually falls that a photographer some time or other has to pay up for LR or Photoshop, and then keep up with upgrades as they come along. Its false economy to delay upgrading, because you only shorten the period between upgrades and in the process also deprive yourself of the latest software. But somebody is always going to get into the cycle and feel short changed because of timing, its the same as buying a camera the day before a new rumour starts about an improved version.  Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanyasi Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share #56  Posted April 2, 2010 You are right, Leica should say what is going to happen, especially as LR3 seems to be so much better than LR2. But whichever way it works out it usually falls that a photographer some time or other has to pay up for LR or Photoshop, and then keep up with upgrades as they come along. Its false economy to delay upgrading, because you only shorten the period between upgrades and in the process also deprive yourself of the latest software. But somebody is always going to get into the cycle and feel short changed because of timing, its the same as buying a camera the day before a new rumour starts about an improved version. Steve  You are right--it is a false economy to avoid upgrading. Do all your work on another platform and then go through a conversion process that will be time consuming if you are planning to convert to LR.  Equally important, I have no problems with upgrades and paying for them. During this cycle of Lightroom--Version 2--I bought the Nik noise reduction program. If LR3 is going to make that obsolete, Adobe deserves credit and money for developing one tool that does what two tools once did. That assumes LR3 is equivalent to NIK. I have yet to see comments on that from those who are using the beta.  I have used LR beta 3, version 2. I found the layout to be much more intuitive. I am willing to pay for that too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted April 2, 2010 Share #57 Â Posted April 2, 2010 I don't even mind paying an upgrade fee. I just want to know that this LR2 number from Leica (X1) will be eligible for an upgrade at a reduced price. Free would be better of course, but I'm not holding my breath. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted April 2, 2010 Share #58 Â Posted April 2, 2010 Why do you think that you are entitled to an upgrade at a reduced price? Â Just doesn't make any sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted April 2, 2010 Share #59 Â Posted April 2, 2010 I'm sorry it doesn't make sense, but I was just not sure what the agreement between Leica and Adobe is... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted April 3, 2010 Share #60 Â Posted April 3, 2010 Capture One is the sales team's recommended software for the S2. Rolo are you saying that the Leica S2 sales team recommend Capture One for use with the camera? That will be news to Stefan Daniel! I don't know if you saw the video interview that Michael Reichmann did prior to the M9 release. Listen to Stefan Daniel from about 24 minutes into this excellent interview. Leica M9 Stephan Daniel Interview on Vimeo My CaptureOne (from M8) free upgrades ran out so I can't comment on current profile support, but out of interest S2 DNGs have no dedicated profile in Lightroom or CS4 as yet. That is, I have only the Embedded option currently. Not surprisingly naturally given the rarity of units. By the way the X1 already has its own dedicated profile. Of course native support already exists for both cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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