M8 vs. M8u vs. M82 (w/ 21mm lens)

[Erik_A]

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I am looking for a Leica M8 of some variation. What is the best value now. It seems the M8.2 is about $1000 more than the M8 currently. If I am using the camera for strictly B&W work, will the original M8 be equal in image quality to the M8.2? Is the shutter upgrade (to eliminate the loudness) necessary? I am also looking for a 21mm lens, what is the best value currently.

[Guest Chris M]

I think the best bang for the almighty dollar is: a good used M8, why?..because it has the same identical sensor (chip) that the other 2 variations have. also you get a much faster shutter 1/8000 sec versus 1/4000 sec also and a faster flash sync of 1/250 sec, all for a substantially less amount of (CASH) Now If you (must have silence) then and only then would I recommend M8.2 or M8u. and then theirs the frame lines and the saphire LCD, but to [me] those things are a waste of money. I put those savings aside for a nice leica lensMake sure when buying one that you ask allot off questions in regards too warranty, shutter actuations, and if the camera has been back to Leica for the dreaded shutter fault problem and vertical line problem that seem to be present on quite a few of these cameras. As far as the 21mm offerings from leica, I would do a thorough search here on this forum for a plethora of nfo on 21mm offerings. Personally for me, its how fast of a lens do I [really] need? and based on that, there is again a huge:eek: difference in cost between the 2 speeds offered by leica.

 

chris m.

[Erik_A]

I think the best bang for the almighty dollar is: a good used M8, why?..because it has the same identical sensor (chip) that the other 2 variations have. also you get a much faster shutter 1/8000 sec versus 1/4000 sec also and a faster flash sync of 1/250 sec, all for a substantially less amount of (CASH) Now If you (must have silence) then and only then would I recommend M8.2 or M8u. and then theirs the frame lines and the saphire LCD, but to [me] those things are a waste of money. I put those savings aside for a nice leica lensMake sure when buying one that you ask allot off questions in regards too warranty, shutter actuations, and if the camera has been back to Leica for the dreaded shutter fault problem and vertical line problem that seem to be present on quite a few of these cameras. As far as the 21mm offerings from leica, I would do a thorough search here on this forum for a plethora of nfo on 21mm offerings. Personally for me, its how fast of a lens do I [really] need? and based on that, there is again a huge:eek: difference in cost between the 2 speeds offered by leica.

 

chris m.

 

 

How do you determine whether the hardware problems have been addressed, like if the shutter fault and vertical line problem? Does Leica keep a record trackable by serial #?

[Islandmike]

As a forum like this is the place people are inclined to turn to in times of technical faults, it may be worth considering the possibility that discussions about those faults lead the forum's readers to gain the impression that products are more fault prone than they really are.

 

Whether it's a forum for cars, trumpets, dog kennels or Leica M8s.....

 

There are two ways to buy a used product - with or without a warranty - to be on the safe side when spending a great deal of money I would want the latter so I could get any fault fixed at no charge.

 

Most of the forum members here seem to feel that later M8s had any problems ironed out so you might look for a late serial number. Mine was one of the latest, with a number 33333**, and it behaves impeccably.

 

In that instance, I can't see any benefit of the M8.2 or 8.u over the plain M8. As said by the poster above, the imaging is the same and once your subject is more than a couple of metres away, I guess they cannot tell the difference in noise level.

 

The beauty of saving some cash on the body purchase might be that you could afford to buy the best 21mm lens, rather than the best value lens.

 

I'm delighted with my CV 21mm/f4 lens on an M8, which is possibly the best value, but I wouldn't expect it to match the image quality of the Leica 21mm F2.8 Aspheric, which is nearly 10 times the price and I would imagine to be the best?

 

It's not the lens I'll use the most, so I saved the money to be able to have a Leica 35mm lens, which I will use the most and so I felt worth paying extra money for the extra quality.

 

So my advice would be a late M8, warranted, plus the best glass you can afford.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Guest Chris M]

How do you determine whether the hardware problems have been addressed, like if the shutter fault and vertical line problem? Does Leica keep a record trackable by serial #?

Welcome Erik, I'm not sure about that? however you might want to call Leica in NJ if you live in the USA and ask if you can verify if a particular camera has been sent to them for certain repairs. If not the burden is on you too do your homework and shop for a used M8 through known established channels. Again ask all of the questions I've mentioned. If he bought the camera new and is a leica guy, I think that most will be more than happy to answer any and all of those questions for you. And also not every camera was plagued with these issues, so don't assume that their all bad, because most are not, also I think there is more info on the cut off serial #'s from the (very first M8's produced that tended to have these problems then the ones manufactured a year and several months latter? not sure when though.

 

hope this helps:)

 

chris m.

[jaapv]

Well, having used (and still using) two M8 bodies from the first series of 1500 (one upgraded) without any problem, apart from Leica's recall in November 2006, I personally cannot relate to all the woes expressed on the forums. If any early M8 has been to Solms once since it was new, they are as reliable as any newer one. And, as other posters mentioned, there has been no sensor or significant electronics change from the very first M8 to the very last M8.2. Mechanically, the shutter was changed from the M8 to the M8.u and M8.2. The vertical line (probably caused by cosmic radiation) can hit any M8, even any digital camera, and the "mad-recocking" shutter fault seems to be a "feature" of the later, slower shutter of the M8.2.

[photoshutter]

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Original M8 is the best, faster shutter 1/8000 and a faster flash sync of 1/250

[Erik_A]

Wow- thanks much for all of the info.

[Tonysaurus]

I think the best bang for the almighty dollar is: a good used M8, why?..because it has the same identical sensor (chip) that the other 2 variations have. also you get a much faster shutter 1/8000 sec versus 1/4000 sec also and a faster flash sync of 1/250 sec, all for a substantially less amount of (CASH) Now If you (must have silence) then and only then would I recommend M8.2 or M8u. and then theirs the frame lines and the saphire LCD, but to [me] those things are a waste of money. I put those savings aside for a nice leica lensMake sure when buying one that you ask allot off questions in regards too warranty, shutter actuations, and if the camera has been back to Leica for the dreaded shutter fault problem and vertical line problem that seem to be present on quite a few of these cameras. As far as the 21mm offerings from leica, I would do a thorough search here on this forum for a plethora of nfo on 21mm offerings. Personally for me, its how fast of a lens do I [really] need? and based on that, there is again a huge:eek: difference in cost between the 2 speeds offered by leica.

 

chris m.

 

This is amazingly helpful for me. I'm a bit worried about buying an M8 second hand due to the problems mentioned in the forum (by the vocal minority I know), so I need to know all the tick-boxes I have to check before taking the plunge.

 

Thanks a lot!

[Photon42]

How do you determine whether the hardware problems have been addressed, like if the shutter fault and vertical line problem? Does Leica keep a record trackable by serial #?

 

Good question. Maybe more as well a question to the experts rather than a proper answer:

 

After my M8 came back from the doctor, it answered

 

localhost> exiftool <myimg>.dng | grep "CCD Board"
CCD Board Version               : 2

 

I think it was "0" before the surgery. Not quite sure, however, what it indicates, really. This to me could mean the sensor was updated, or, the 3rd generation of the sensor (if they count from zero like all real men ) was implanted.

 

Cheers

Ivo

[jaapv]

The sensor was always the same. However the motherboard version changed because of a change in supplier. So if Leica changes the motherboard, it will automatically go to version 2.

[cbretteville]

localhost> exiftool <myimg>.dng | grep "CCD Board"
CCD Board Version               : 2

I think it was "0" before the surgery. Not quite sure, however, what it indicates, really. This to me could mean the sensor was updated, or, the 3rd generation of the sensor (if they count from zero like all real men ) was implanted.

 

Ivo,

The maker notes tag that has been labeled "CCD board version" was done so by me based on information dug up during my work on the maker notes recorded in the M8 image files in 2007 (which is what Phil Harvey used in his ExifTool). It was an educated guess based on information retrieved from the XML header of the firmware update files and comparing that to information n the image files. It is highly unlikely that the the sensor it self has changed and much more likely that the revision number (which can be 0 - 2) is based on the mix of components in addition to the Kodak KAF-10500 sensor that are mounted on the sensor board. Here is what I published in 2007:

0: The first revision, probably the one that was recalled and had to go back to

Solms for replacement.

1: Second revision, used until late September 2007.

2: Third revision, used in production after September 2007.

Leica sourced off the shelf components from third parties to make the electronics in the M8 and we know that some of these were changed during the production runs of the M8x. A change in one component or another on a PCB does not necessarily mean any functional change. There is no drama in that, this happens to most manufacturers all the time.

 

My own M8, delivered in March 2007 and upgraded last year has always recorded '1' in that tag.

 

Carl

[jaapv]

We even had different firmware for different motherboards at one point of time; there was one member here who wanted to take leica to court over it,