M9 – Tungsten White Balance is Yellow

[63strat]

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I just moved from an M8.2 to an M9 and am disappointed with the white balance Daylight setting (shooting indoors in the daytime, with the Daytime preset -- everything has a strong yellow cast. Never had this issue with my M8.2. I am not using AWB.

 

I searched and read other threads on this but is there an answer? An earlier thread from months ago said this would be fixed in a later firmware upgrade, but this is a brand new 2 day old M9 with the latest firmware installed at the factory (1.116).

 

Surely there has to be a fix for this somehow, no?

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[jaapv]

Download the latest firmware first. This is the old one. AWB is not very relevant anyway, as it has to be adjusted in RAW conversion in any case with any digital camera, especially in difficult light.

[k-hawinkler]

Isn't 1.116 the latest FW?

 

K-H.

[jaapv]

Sorry, yes, it is I was working with my M8 just now and got confused

 

The tungsten does look slightly yellow, but one can discuss whether that is the correct color or not. The easy way out is to set a custom white balance and put it in a user. I have the one for eco-lighting there. That works quite well. But as I said, it is relatively unimportant, as it needs tweaking in RAW conversion anyway, whatever you start with.

[63strat]

I tried to change the title of my thread but for some reason it won't stick. I meant to say Daytime White balance Indoors during the daytime.

 

Anyhow, I reset the M9 and all's well, yellow cast is gone, but I can't figure out what went wrong. All I did yesterday before this happened is format a new SD card.

 

Thanks.

[Overgaard]

The preset white balances in the M9 seems off in my opinion (haven't checked if it changed with the new firmware - I think not).

 

I use manual white balance. Or 3200K kelvin setting for indoor tungsten. That works well.

 

In general, tones are very precise on the Leica M9 when using manual white balance.

[viramati]

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I bought this up with a Leica person and have also been told that it should be sorted in the next firmware upgrade. Personally it doesn't particularly bother me as I sort it easily in LR

[Theodor Heinrichsohn]

I bought this up with a Leica person and have also been told that it should be sorted in the next firmware upgrade. Personally it doesn't particularly bother me as I sort it easily in LR

 

Same experience here with AWB. I also use manual setting in difficult or mixed lighting. Sometimes also setting using Expodisc.

In December I was told by a Leica representative that AWB would be corrected in the "next" firmware update. I believe I saw 1.006 on his M9. When 1.116 came out I did not find the AWB changed. Maybe next time around.

Teddy

[lars_bergquist]

Two things to point out: First, tungsten lamps have no single generic colour temperature. There's halogen, ranging from c. 3400 to 3200K dependent on the lamp's age, and then plain halogen where the Kelvin value varies quite widely with the wattage, but is lower, 2800 to 2000 or less. So any AWB setting must be a compromise.

 

Second, if fluorescent low energy lamps are 'in the picture' the result is usually bright lemon yellow (at least with my Osram lights). This is going to be a mounting problem in Europe as tungsten lamps are being phased out by a ukase from Brussels. The only remedy here is to carry an ExpoDisc or equivalent, and do a manual white balance whenever you enter an unfamiliar location. Or go black and white ...

 

The old man from the Age of Kerosene Lamps

[mjh]

Two things to point out: First, tungsten lamps have no single generic colour temperature. There's halogen, ranging from c. 3400 to 3200K dependent on the lamp's age, and then plain halogen where the Kelvin value varies quite widely with the wattage, but is lower, 2800 to 2000 or less. So any AWB setting must be a compromise.

Moreover, the AWB of any digital camera is designed to deal with a limited range of color temperatures; even the higher temperature halogen light is usually outside this range and won’t be corrected. The Daylight setting used by 63strat is intended “for outdoor pictures in sunshine” (or at least that’s what the manual says) and not usually suitable for indoor shots.

[noah_addis]

I've been either setting a manual WB or, more often, setting the kelvin temperature to something around 3200 for tungsten or 5400 for daylight.

 

Sometimes I just leave it on 5400 no matter what...I kind of like to leave some of the color and character in my indoor color photos, so it's sort of like shooting chromes. You get to see the actual color of the light, which can of course be fixed later during raw conversion if you want.

 

I've stopped using auto WB for the most part. It's too inconsistent.

[brill64]

manual white balance works great! try setting that easily on a nikon..

[lars_bergquist]

Moreover, the AWB of any digital camera is designed to deal with a limited range of color temperatures; even the higher temperature halogen light is usually outside this range and won’t be corrected. The Daylight setting used by 63strat is intended “for outdoor pictures in sunshine” (or at least that’s what the manual says) and not usually suitable for indoor shots.

My own experience seems to show that AWB on the M9 does a fair job with halogen lighting. The WB of the shot below may not be perfect, but it sure is in the ballpark.

 

The old man from the Age of Kerosene Lamps

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[63strat]

Moreover, the AWB of any digital camera is designed to deal with a limited range of color temperatures; even the higher temperature halogen light is usually outside this range and won’t be corrected. The Daylight setting used by 63strat is intended “for outdoor pictures in sunshine” (or at least that’s what the manual says) and not usually suitable for indoor shots.

 

As I mentioned there was a mistake in the title of the thread which I was not able to correct and make stick on the main M9 forum page. The title should have been: Daylight Preset White Balance is Yellow (Indoors).

 

I was referring to taking photos indoors in the daytime with no lights on (just natural light entering through windows). This was turning out yellow with the Daytime preset. Manual did work correctly. I was only able to fix it by totally reseting the camera back to default values, so this looks like a bug in the firmware.

 

BTW, am I correct in using the Daytime preset for indoors with natural window light, or should it be something different – Cloudy?

[lars_bergquist]

... BTW, am I correct in using the Daytime preset for indoors with natural window light, or should it be something different – Cloudy?

That depends on your indoors. There will be lot of light around that is reflected from furniture, wallpaper, textiles and whatnot. It will take a tinge from all those things.

 

Also, it depends on the outdoor light: Sunny, overcast ... Windows facing south, north ...

 

The variables are infinite. If you shoot DNG and know your post-processing, use AWB and fix it later. If you do JPG, 'Daylight' is often right when it's sunny outside, and 'Cloudy' when it's cloudy, but there is no certainty about it.

 

So ultimately, shoot and learn! That (if the results are evaluated with a bit of native intelligence) is far more valuable than recipes furnished by someone else.

 

The old man from the Age of Tri-X -- and Kodachrome

[AlanG]

As I mentioned there was a mistake in the title of the thread which I was not able to correct and make stick on the main M9 forum page. The title should have been: Daylight Preset White Balance is Yellow (Indoors).

 

I was referring to taking photos indoors in the daytime with no lights on (just natural light entering through windows). This was turning out yellow with the Daytime preset. Manual did work correctly. I was only able to fix it by totally reseting the camera back to default values, so this looks like a bug in the firmware.

 

BTW, am I correct in using the Daytime preset for indoors with natural window light, or should it be something different – Cloudy?

 

Typical room interiors shot during the day generally balance well when a camera is set to around 4000-4500K. The walls and furnishings make things warmer than you might think.

[63strat]

Typical room interiors shot during the day generally balance well when a camera is set to around 4000-4500K. The walls and furnishings make things warmer than you might think.

 

Thanks...

[swamiji]

 

The old man from the Age of Tri-X -- and Kodachrome

 

Your not that old then, I am currently shooting Tri-X and Kodachrome....

 

In regards to Outdoor white balance, used indoors... These days I take a test shot, and then set my Manual White balance. Nothing else seems to be accurate. The advice to set the temp to 4000k-4500k. Does seem intriguing....

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[AlanG]

Your not that old then, I am currently shooting Tri-X and Kodachrome....

 

In regards to Outdoor white balance, used indoors... These days I take a test shot, and then set my Manual White balance. Nothing else seems to be accurate. The advice to set the temp to 4000k-4500k. Does seem intriguing....

 

The only reason I say 4000 to 4500 K is that's been my experience shooting architectural interiors - often of homes. That is my profession. I almost always shoot tethered to a computer and generally use electronic flash to supplement the existing light. Since I shoot raw, I don't generally set the white balance on my camera, but I can tell from all my raw converter settings that 4000 to 4500 would be about right under a lot of circumstances. (Of course this varies and is why you have to fine tune in raw.)

 

I just looked at the values I used for two recent home interior projects and these were in the 4000 K range. (They had daylight, typical incandescent fixtures and some shots had flash as accent or fill.) Many photos of this link illustrate representative examples of what I am getting at:

 

http://www.photoshelter.com/gallery-slideshow/G0000nQf78KI4ijc/