M9 Flash Photography

[Jerry_R]

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As my links to pictures on official portals or blogs were removed

(I do not understand, how it can be done if source was always given, they had even author name on them, but anyway...)

=> pls open:

 

Jarosław Grabek - Photography Fotografia Ślubna

and click on "plener"

 

also have a look here:

06 – flash outdoors � Neil vN – tangents

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[jaapv]

 

So - it is not yet fully perfectly adopted to M9. I am sorry. But I really do not understand WHAT WE TALK ABOUT???

Removing such bug in firmware is just copying few lines of code. Come on!

 

.

It seems highly doubtful to me the HSS is "just a few lines of code" And it is certainly not a bug. Implementing HSS calls for a different level of communication between camera and flash than simple synchronisation and the software would have to differentiate between normal flash with a max sync speed of 180 and a flash set to HSS if it has that capability. Different modules, different exposure measuring, a load of processing power. It certainly would be a nice thing to have, but it may well be that it is simply impossible to implement on the M9..

[Jerry_R]

Different modules, different exposure measuring, a load of processing power [...] it is simply impossible to implement on the M9

Jaap, I think all that is needed - is already there. Existing hardware of body and flash already talk to eachother in other modes and calculates on the fly a lot of settings. There is exchange of shutter speed, ISO and focal. Nothing more is needed. And fill flash already works below 1/180s.

 

But let's wait and see. I sent request to Leica.

 

Here is how Leica officially treats SF 58: Leica Camera AG - Photography - NEW: LEICA SF 58

"powerful and versatile flash unit that is perfectly adapted to the Leica M, R and S systems"

 

They mention creativity few times, there isn't any word that HSS is not supported by M9, but is supported on other models.

 

And I know there are few people who put buying SF58 'On Hold', until final clarifying it by Leica.

[mwilliamsphotography]

Speed light work with a Leica M is something of a rarity having enjoyed the available light tradition for many, many decades. However, this doesn't mean that all Leica M users are unfamiliar with speed light work.

 

One of the traits of the M is its relatively small size, and perhaps just as importantly is its balance in the hand. A speed light like the SF58 pretty much interferes with both of those much appreciated M attributes ... which is why I personally refuse to use one after trying it for wedding photography.

 

As anyone highly experienced in so called "strobists" work knows, the objective is to use as little flash as possible while still helping to shorten the contrast range and provide just enough fill to counter things like "Raccoon Eye" ... all while avoiding the obvious flash traits like flat head-on lighting of the subject, and cast shadows demonstrated by Jerry's image posted in this thread above.

 

To accomplish this the speed light needs to be up higher to cast any shadows down and behind the subject, bounced into a higher source or severely diffused ... and the balance between ambient and artificial light brought into harmony so the shadows don't get crushed and blend the subject darks with the background darks ... also demonstrated in Jerry's example.

 

That said, I do grasp that you do what is needed to get the shot ... and sometimes an on-camera speed light is the only recourse ... and directional light less of an option due to timing or other circumstances.

Attached is just such a shot using a M9 @ ISO 800, a 50mm, and SF24D with a S-Fill diffuser ... the ambient was VERY low in this case so I used a 1/30th shutter to bring up the background and relied on the flash duration to freeze the action. While still the flat, head-on lighting endemic of on-camera speed lights, there is little to no drop shadows, and decent separation of the subject from the dark ambient background. You do what's needed to capture the content even in less than ideal conditions ... also like Jerry's shot.

 

 

The problem with HSS with all but the biggest and most powerful speed lights is that it is nearly useless in outdoor scenarios where it is most needed ... unless you are right on top of the subject. Study how HSS works and you'll better grasp why this is. So, for a speed light the size and power of the SF24D, HSS would most likely be of marginal use, if any at all.

 

HSS is usually not needed in lower ambient lighting because one is usually using a higher ISO and wider aperture to open up the ambient background while relying on the short flash duration to freeze the subject action.

 

IMO, what is needed in this day and age of Leica M Digital is a TTL Leica compatible speed light that is 1) only slightly larger than the SF24D, 2) a bit more powerful, and 3) most importantly, offers a true bounce capability with rotation in all directions to take advantage of walls or any other bounce surface available ... and when there is none, a bounce card on the upright flash head.

 

Marc

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[jaapv]

IMO, what is needed in this day and age of Leica M Digital is a TTL Leica compatible speed light that is 1) only slightly larger than the SF24D, 2) a bit more powerful, and 3) most importantly, offers a true bounce capability with rotation in all directions to take advantage of walls or any other bounce surface available ... and when there is none, a bounce card on the upright flash head.

 

Marc

Hear!Hear! Photokina??

[eritho]

IMO, what is needed in this day and age of Leica M Digital is a TTL Leica compatible speed light that is 1) only slightly larger than the SF24D, 2) a bit more powerful, and 3) most importantly, offers a true bounce capability with rotation in all directions to take advantage of walls or any other bounce surface available ... and when there is none, a bounce card on the upright flash head.

 

Marc

 

I shall keep my SF20 waiting for this!

It should be no match for Metz to make something like this, and... I should order one this very day

[London La]

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I would like to know if the SB26 works with M9. it is rather a large flash and much heavier than the M9. i would put it on a bracket as the bracket at top is not the right fit. but does it do all the TTL operations?

 

Thank you

[mwilliamsphotography]

I shall keep my SF20 waiting for this!

It should be no match for Metz to make something like this, and... I should order one this very day

 

Sign me up for two of them please ... LOL!

 

-Marc

[carlmuck]

London La

 

The SB26 works fine with the M9 in all but TTL mode (as you suspect). Automatic works just fine.

 

c.

[lars_bergquist]

I agree completely with Marc. A SF32D with a fully swiveling head would be very useful indeed. Even one without that head would be useful. I use the off-camera technique that Sean Reid describes, so I am lready bouncing without any swiveling head, only a little bit more juice would come in handy.

 

Also, with the Nissin SC-01 cable, I can in a pinch bounce flash with a 18mm lens on the camera without guessing at the composition, because it has an extra shoe on top, so I can use the 18mm finder. This is not too elegant, but it does work.

 

The old man from the Age of Lead-Acid Electronic Flash

[D&A]

The "ideal" flash I believe Marc described is basically a Nikon SB-800! It's smaller than the SF-58, has great output, swivals in almost all directions, has built-in bouce card etc.... and if Metz/Leica came out with a TTL flash like this for Leica (M)...I think it would fit the bill. I'm not talking about it's particular user interface, which could be imporved or every feature it offers...but the basic size and premise of the SB-800 for Leica. Unfortunately I think anything smaller, wouldn't have the output for bounce.

 

Dave (D&A)

[tdtaylor]

IMO, what is needed in this day and age of Leica M Digital is a TTL Leica compatible speed light that is 1) only slightly larger than the SF24D, 2) a bit more powerful, and 3) most importantly, offers a true bounce capability with rotation in all directions to take advantage of walls or any other bounce surface available ... and when there is none, a bounce card on the upright flash head.

Marc

 

I absolutely agree.

 

In my business, I do a lot of building documentation work, and the SF58 is awkward, but it works. In this situation, I typically need all the power I can get, often with a wide angle, am not being picky about exposure, and it needs to be fast.

 

But outside of this situation at work, for my personal work this would be ideal and I would immediately purchase one. While I have been pleased what I can achieve with the SF58, it is just too much to lug around to an event- if I wanted to lug this much weight, I'm back to the D700 with my SB900s. Something TTL compatible, around the size of a SF24 or a little larger, with a tilt head is the ticket. Much more Leica like.

[tdtaylor]

The "ideal" flash I believe Marc described is basically a Nikon SB-800! It's smaller than the SF-58, has great output, swivals in almost all directions, has built-in bouce card etc.... and if Metz/Leica came out with a TTL flash like this for Leica (M)...I think it would fit the bill. I'm not talking about it's particular user interface, which could be imporved or every feature it offers...but the basic size and premise of the SB-800 for Leica. Unfortunately I think anything smaller, wouldn't have the output for bounce.

 

Dave (D&A)

 

I would push for something more the SB600 size. If I am not using the SB900, I typically drop right down to the SB600, skipping the SB800.

[Jerry_R]

One more alternative - works in flash AUTO mode well with M9.

It is smaller, cheaper and weaker than SB-800. You can bounce it as you wish.

 

It is FL-36®.

(no TTL, no HSS with M9 of course)

[mwilliamsphotography]

SB 800 is still a bit too big. I used one on my M7s in Auto mode. To big to dangle at your side when using two Ms to shoot events and stuff like that. A bit too unbalanced.

 

Put a bounce head on the SF24D and I'd be a happy camper ... maybe squeeze a bit more power out of the same size flash ... but bounce is my biggest issue.

 

Marc

[Jamie Roberts]

Just going to throw my 2 cents in here.

 

I don't care about balance when I have the camera at hand, with the grip, and strapped round my neck. In that case, any of the Canons (550, 580v1 or 580v2) all work out of the box with an M, as does the Metz 54, and they all have 360 degree bounce. The 580v2 even has an Auto mode that works well with the Ms, though truth to tell I always shoot manual. I don't need TTL flash from Leica.

 

Nikon is a bit trickier; the SB 800 is ok but doesn't bounce / swivel as well as the Canons or the SB900; unfortunately, the SB900 will not mount into the M hot shoe without filing the flash shoe.

 

But even more importantly, at a venue for an event or wedding, it takes 5-10 minutes of prep time to set up off-camera flashes and trigger them with a pocket wizard. The new PW TT1s are prefect for this; they're tiny and have a pass through hot-shoe if you want to also fire and bounce some fill from your position. This lets you get great light exactly where you want it and work multiple angles for different light effects.

 

Why do that? Because you need good light for great shots, even with an M On-camera directly aimed unmodified flash is almost without exception totally uninteresting light because it's too small for people and unidirectional, so it lacks the ability to provide form and texture. Perhaps that's the reason so many M shooters prefer available light (and I do too); which in many, many cases is superior to a small artificial light.

 

But when you need flash, there are ways to work with the current system that go beyond a bounce and beyond an off-camera cord. And having said all of that, it would be nice if Leica provided a more nicely ergonomic flash with a bounce, but it's a 'nice-to-have' for me and not critical.

 

As for HSS, it has it's uses, especially with fast glass and high ISOs. I don't mind it, but then I use powerful small flashes. I totally understand why some people would like it, and I'd certainly prefer if the Ms sent out a trigger signal higher than 1/250--even if the lights didn't synch perfectly.

[Rolo]

Having not recovered from the M9 purchase, I had to put my old Metz 43z into service.

 

There's no TTL with this model, but perfectly satisfied with my results.

 

My first, First Dance with the M9.

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[SJP]

wow

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Rolo]

I had to put my old Metz 43z into service.

 

Got the model number wrong. It's actually a Metz 40 MZ-3i.

 

Set-up was hot shoe mounted and bounced with fitted with a Stofen diffuser. The flash is programmed to under-expose in -1 stop decrements using the pre-set feature. This might have been shot at 1/64 power, maybe 1/32.