ryanpeck Posted February 23, 2010 Share #1 Posted February 23, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hey everyone, I was doing a bit of large format printing of several M8 files and discovered the sinister line of dead pixels running down the right of the frame. These were high ISO files, which I rarely ever use, and it sparked me to look at some of my older shot and, you guessed it, it's there in every shot--faint, but undeniable. So, here's my question. I bought my M8 in 2007 and it's long out of warranty. Any advice on how to go about getting it repaired? Since this is such a well documented problem, is this something they will do for free? Finally, does anyone know who to email or call to have the best luck? Obviously, I can provide example shots that clearly show the line as early as 3 weeks from receipt of camera. I feel a bit foolish only now having discovered it. Oh well. As always, thanks to everyone for the help. best ryan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 Hi ryanpeck, Take a look here Vertical Line Problem, Out of Warranty M8 Help. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted February 23, 2010 Share #2 Posted February 23, 2010 I wouldn't feel foolish if I were you - you were perfectly entitled to assume the product would work correctly. First, it's important to know that all sensors have defects - Kodak set limits on what they consider to be a "good sensor" and allow, for example, 2500 bad pixels and up to 10 bad columns. There's a fine distinction made between saturated (brighter, whatever the light), dead (darker, whatever the light) and deviating columns (different from their neighbours). The camera production process masks out these defects by effectively teaching the camera where they are and the camera interpolates across them to render them invisible. When running at high ISO, lack of uniformity across the sensor becomes more apparent so that marginal pixels and columns which should have been masked out but were not become more visible. Since your camera was made, Leica have learned a lot about how to make them and there's some evidence they have refined their processes. There's much less talk on this forum now about sensor and viewfinder/rangefinder/lens alignment issues than there used to be. My own experience of my two early M8u cameras is that they came back from upgrade working much better than before. It may well be they have changed the process which masks out the defects to provide a greater safety margin. If you send your camera back to Leica, they may decide to just repeat this process or they may decide a new sensor is required. However, if you are able to send them images which show the current problem existed when you first received the camera, you have a stronger case for them fixing it free of charge. The ultimate blame for this dismal QA lies with Kodak with Leica playing a supporting role in being lax in letting the problems through. Leica really do have to wean themselves off the need for users to carry out a forensic drains-up on each and every product to check for defects. That's their job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted February 23, 2010 Share #3 Posted February 23, 2010 I agree with Mark. Talk to Leica about it. Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcuthbert Posted February 23, 2010 Share #4 Posted February 23, 2010 I had the same problem, vertical line and out of warranty. Spoke to Leica UK and explained the issue and they asked me to send it in. In the end it was repaired and sent back to me. Give them a call and explain the situation, in most cases they are open to helping you get a working M8 back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I love my M8 Posted February 23, 2010 Share #5 Posted February 23, 2010 I had the same problem, vertical line and out of warranty. Spoke to Leica UK and explained the issue and they asked me to send it in. In the end it was repaired and sent back to me. Give them a call and explain the situation, in most cases they are open to helping you get a working M8 back. Obvious question - they repaired your camera out of warranty so, did they charge you anything to do this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcuthbert Posted February 23, 2010 Share #6 Posted February 23, 2010 nyet, not a sausage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I love my M8 Posted February 23, 2010 Share #7 Posted February 23, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) That was what I was hoping (and indeed expecting) the answer to be! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbac Posted February 23, 2010 Share #8 Posted February 23, 2010 Hello, I had the same issue on my M8 (out of warranty). I sent an email to leica customer service describing the problem. They asked me to join a file showing it (which I did), and the next day, they told me to send the M8 to Solms (I live in France): they replaced the sensor + cleaned the M8, all free of charge. It took about a month for the M8 to come back. Hope it works for you too (don't see why not). Sebastien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanpeck Posted February 23, 2010 Author Share #9 Posted February 23, 2010 Sebastien, do you have the customer service address that you sent it too. For some reason I can't locate it. Thanks for the answer, too. Looks like I have a good chance. cheers ry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 23, 2010 Share #10 Posted February 23, 2010 Leica Camera AG - Home Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbac Posted February 23, 2010 Share #11 Posted February 23, 2010 Yes That's the one you find on the site :http://uk.leica-camera.com/service/service_and_repair/headquarters_germany/photography/index.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmk60 Posted February 23, 2010 Share #12 Posted February 23, 2010 Hello, I had the same issue on my M8 (out of warranty). I sent an email to leica customer service describing the problem. They asked me to join a file showing it (which I did), and the next day, they told me to send the M8 to Solms (I live in France): they replaced the sensor + cleaned the M8, all free of charge. It took about a month for the M8 to come back. Hope it works for you too (don't see why not). Sebastien Having the same issue here but Leica USA did not even listen to me and refused to repair my camera for free. I will contact Leica Solms directly and see what they have to say. I have files that were taken well within the warranty period and show the line. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 23, 2010 Share #13 Posted February 23, 2010 Everything I've ever read here about Leica NJ is that they're a nightmare to deal with. Solms may not always get it right but there's the right attitude and undoubted pride in what they do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcuthbert Posted February 23, 2010 Share #14 Posted February 23, 2010 Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but does anyone know Leica's policy on replacing a unit when it's been back for a number of issues? my m8 is heading back for the 3rd time now and I get the feeling this unit isn't a shining example of German engineering. Leica UK is finding out the policy on this, but I wondered what others thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhomatude Posted February 23, 2010 Share #15 Posted February 23, 2010 Strange to hear that about Leica NJ -- I had the same issue this past summer. M8 was close to one year out of warranty. I sent along a couple of prints and jpgs with the camera, showing the vertical line issue and 1 month later I had the camera back with a brand new sensor. No charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanpeck Posted February 23, 2010 Author Share #16 Posted February 23, 2010 Strange to hear that about Leica NJ -- I had the same issue this past summer. M8 was close to one year out of warranty. I sent along a couple of prints and jpgs with the camera, showing the vertical line issue and 1 month later I had the camera back with a brand new sensor. No charge. do you remember who you dealt with at Leica NJ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhomatude Posted February 25, 2010 Share #17 Posted February 25, 2010 Sarah Mayville -- I sent a detailed email with attached jpegs first and she said to send in the camera with a detailed letter and if it was a "billable repair" they would send me an estimate. I guess they deemed that it was not a billable repair even though it was out of warranty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmk60 Posted February 25, 2010 Share #18 Posted February 25, 2010 Sarah Mayville -- I sent a detailed email with attached jpegs first and she said to send in the camera with a detailed letter and if it was a "billable repair" they would send me an estimate. I guess they deemed that it was not a billable repair even though it was out of warranty. I did the same and received an invoice from NJ, stating "billable repair". Inconsistent... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted February 25, 2010 Share #19 Posted February 25, 2010 Please do not post email addresses on the forum. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Alex Posted February 25, 2010 Share #20 Posted February 25, 2010 In Australia we have the'Department of Fair Trade' that deals with consumer complaints. Contact the relevant body in your country and ask them for advice. In Australia there is legislation that dictates goods should be reasonably fit for the purposes for which they are sold taking into account the price of the goods. This is a statutory protection for consumers which even covers goods out of warranty and definitely covers goods for which there was a latent defect. Think of the warranty period as the MINIMUM period within which a company should replace/repair faulty goods. The period within which a company is required to replace/repair goods can be far longer depending on the particular goods concerned. Most countries should have similar consumer protection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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