50mm Summicron on Digital M beats ANYTHING I have seen from Canon or Nikon!!!

[eleskin]

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I am still using my very reliable and trusty M8 (I hope to buy the M9 soon, but only later in the year when I can afford it) and I noticed something which I consider quite interesting. I am well aware of the 50mm Summicron's reputation (I used to have a Dual Range Summicron, and now I own a late model -current- 50mm Summicron0, and recently I had a chance to run a file through Alien Skin Blowup 2 to see what would happen. I chose a portrait, and increased the file size to 500MB!! I was shocked at the outcome! The tonal range and detail of this lens is OUTSTANDING! I had a chance to compare this result to a friends work (he used Alien Skin Blowup 2 as well) who uses the latest Canon pro bodies and lenses, and the Summicron blew his away. His upsized photo showed signs of being manipulated (a smeared look in some areas, detail not rendered as clearly as well as less of a tonal range). What this says to me is that even if the M8 has less megapixels than newer cameras, the LENS is still the most crucial element of all, and Alien Skin was able to do more with the M8 file due to the superior optics and a sensor that is very, very good, despite al of the criticism and faults since the M8 came out. I suspect the M9 will be even better. I am VERY impressed! I am even more blown away when I realize this Summicron design is decades old, and how good Walter Mandler was at designing his lenses. It blows away ANYTHING new coming out of Japan today. I am breathless at this. What a treat and pleasant surprise (Should I really be surprised? This is Leica after all!). I bought this lens on Ebay for $700 USD! What a value! A keeper for life!!!!

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[lars_bergquist]

Nice photo, but taken under ideal circumstances. I sold my 'cron because the current Summilux ASPH beat it hands down in the flare and reflections department; and it is at least equally good under 'studio' conditions. That extra f-stop is just a nice bonus.

 

The old man from the Age of the 5cm Elmar

[swamiji]

eleskin

 

Ignore Lars, he must be regretting the loss of his Cron. I am a Nocti fan myself, but who is to knock your results. Enjoy, and Congrats.

[lars_bergquist]

No regrets. I just wanted to point out that, if Eleskin ever takes that lens outside, he will sooner or later see some very strange flare phenomena. For instance, if he takes a picture of a darkish house or the edge of the woods, with a hazy or lightly clouded sky above it serving as a light source, he may well be surprised by seeing a roughly trapezoidal patch of flare in the dark part of the picture. Other shots may show overall flare instead. The classical double-Gauss design of the 'cron is a bit troublesome in this respect, and I don't think the mount contributes to the effect. The 'lux ASPH is a lot more robust in this respect, which is reassuring if you don't reflexively (!) chimp every frame.

 

The old man from the Age of the 5cm Elmar

[250swb]

No regrets. I just wanted to point out that, if Eleskin ever takes that lens outside, he will sooner or later see some very strange flare phenomena. For instance, if he takes a picture of a darkish house or the edge of the woods, with a hazy or lightly clouded sky above it serving as a light source, he may well be surprised by seeing a roughly trapezoidal patch of flare in the dark part of the picture. Other shots may show overall flare instead. The classical double-Gauss design of the 'cron is a bit troublesome in this respect, and I don't think the mount contributes to the effect. The 'lux ASPH is a lot more robust in this respect, which is reassuring if you don't reflexively (!) chimp every frame.

 

The old man from the Age of the 5cm Elmar

 

Nope, never noticed anything like that with my Summicron. The big problem is getting the lens cap to stay on in the camera bag, is the Summilux better in this respect, should I change?

 

Steve

[swamiji]

Nope, never noticed anything like that with my Summicron. The big problem is getting the lens cap to stay on in the camera bag, is the Summilux better in this respect, should I change?

 

Steve

 

+1

 

I really enjoyed the Cron, small, easy to use, great images. My only issue was that I shoot mostly in very very low light, and the extra 2 f-stops is a great help... True, the Nocti has it's issues, and requires more skill, I had to choose either get the shot or not.

[eleskin]

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Interesting how the Noctilux plays into this discussion. I have the Noctilux too and use it for low light as well as very limited depth of field (also good for a smoother look-ideal for weddings, shots of women, children especially during the hollidays or any other event where there is alot of color to create that dreamy background. The Summicron is harsher, and is good for portraits where that look is important. In my case, I take alot of portraits of steelworkers, so the Summicron is perfect for that (a major reason I bought it).

 

Here are some pics. One is of a man who was a professional boxer who worked at Bethlehem Steel (he would go running 10 miles to work and back every day - he is the guy with the flag and an older Summicron portrait of him today) Other pics are of portraits and Noctilux photos, one of my daughter and the other of a valve in the Bethlehem Steel Plant.

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[eleskin]

You can see from my photos I use the Summicron for what it does, and the Noctilux for what it can do. They complement each other, but do not replace each other.

[eleskin]

The steelworker with the flag is named John Deutch. It was taken in 1989 with a Minolta X-700 and 24mm lens while I was going to graduate school for photography (Pratt Institute). The second and more recent photo is of Mr Deutch today, taken with my 50mm Summicron and M8.

[swamiji]

You can see from my photos I use the Summicron for what it does, and the Noctilux for what it can do. They complement each other, but do not replace each other.

 

I agree, but I went with a Nocti/MATE combination, instead. However I may end up with a cron for a project I am working on.

[cheewai_m6]

Nope, never noticed anything like that with my Summicron. The big problem is getting the lens cap to stay on in the camera bag, is the Summilux better in this respect, should I change?

 

Steve

 

i've also read a lot of people who have this lens (50mm cron) have never had problems with flare. i've also read a lot people say they've read that this lens have problem with flare though.

[likalar]

Nope, never noticed anything like that with my Summicron. The big problem is getting the lens cap to stay on in the camera bag, is the Summilux better in this respect, should I change?

 

Steve

 

Not sure, but I too have trouble with the lens cap on the current 50 Summicron. Catches on everything. The 90 Elmarit M has the same design/problem. I may switch to SLR. ;-)

 

Eleskin, very nice! Thanks for posting the crops too.; very sharp!

 

Larry

[swamiji]

Oh no, a lens cap issue, perhaps I should get either a pre asph or a dual range instead!!!

[Jerry_R]

RE: beats ANYTHING I have seen from Canon or Nikon!!!

 

=> if we talk about sharpness - it is also body and its lack of AA filter (not met at Canon or Nikon)

[smoody]

Great sharpness... too bad about the moire in the image ;-)

 

I own an M9 and Canon gear. I love the output from the M9, but I have about a dozen really good street photography shots that were rendered useless by the moire (pun intended) in a series I've been creating. It's painful when that happens.

 

But you're right about the sharpness/quality. Sometimes in Photoshop I accidentally zoom up to 200% using the keyboard shortcuts without realizing it because, even with Photoshop's very basic display upscaling, it is sometimes difficult to tell that I'm viewing it at 2x magnification and when that happens, I always crack a bit of a smile.

[lars_bergquist]

I agree that the current 'cron is a very good lens. But the 'flare patch' problem is well known. Like all such problems, it is dependent on a concurrence of factors, and therefore not easy (though not impossible) to reproduce. But it should not be denied. Outside my window as I write this the temp is minus five Celsius, and over one foot of snow. So obviously, all that talk about global warming is bunk!

 

I also agree however that much of the credit for stunningly sharp pictures is due to the camera itself. Even my dear old v.4 35mm Summicron is much better now ...

 

The design of Leica 39mm and 46mm lens caps are different. The 39mm cap has locking tabs that project and are easily disengaged when the lens is 'bagged'. But I would not buy a Summilux for that reason alone.

 

The old man from the Age of the 5cm Elmar

[eleskin]

I agree that a factor here for greater sharpness indeed may be the lack of an IR filter on the M8. Still, the lenses are a key ingredient. What I would like to see are some pics from the M9 in studio conditions similar to the photos I posted (a portrait or something similar with an extreme blowup of a small area of the photo, maybe a sample that was run through Alienskin Blowup 2 or something similar. It would be nice to see how the M9 file compares to my M8 file using the same lens -50mm Summicron latest version).

[eleskin]

Sometimes I also have noticed a flare problem or even lower contrast photos when the light source is at your side or almost facing a light source. The Noctilux f1.0 has no such problem at all.

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[lars_bergquist]

I agree that a factor here for greater sharpness indeed may be the lack of an IR filter on the M8. Still, the lenses are a key ingredient [ ... ]

IR filter? The M8 has a very weak IR filter over the sensor, and has to use an extra lens filter for that reason. So we can test the resolution of a M8 with two quite different levels of IR filtration, and still use the same camera and the same lens! But though some have claimed that for theoretical reasons, less IR filtering should decrease resolution (bacase IR radiation does not come to the same focus as visible light) nobody has been able to demonstrate that difference in practice.

 

The AA filter referred to in previous postings has nothing to do with IR. The 'anti-aliasing filter' as it is euphemistically called, is actually a low-pass filter -- to call a spade a spade, a soft-filter -- to ensure that the resolution of the optical image does not surpass that of the sensor. It is this extra optical resolution that creates aliasing -- stair-stepping -- and moiré. This resolution-destroyer is what the M cameras lack. The M9 has of course a fairly dense absorption-type IR filter over the sensor -- this is what gives it its dark green colour when you look at it.

 

And yes, high-definition lenses ARE a key ingredient -- because the absence of AA filtering permits them to to transfer their full performance to the sensor surface.

 

The old man from the Age of the 5cm Elmar