Struggling to fall in love with the M9

[TacTZilla]

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Why would you invest in something you don't already know if you like?

How else would you find out if you like it?

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[JoonGoii]

Since this is my first posting, I think this is also the most interesting topic for me for at the moment. Very interesting story you have told here and would also like to mention that you take great pictures.

 

I am at the moment a Nikon D300 user with 4 lenses, 4 SB-900 flashes and some studio equipment, but using a D300 with batterygrip, maybe a flash is not so fun to carry around outdoors. I got an "poor guys Leica" Olympus E-P1 last year that is not used so much I hoped for, but will be using it a lot the next couple of months like a "rangefinder" to see how this works out for me. Taking pictures is a hobby for me and Iv got a fulltime job beside, so buying something like a M9 will be expensive with little or no income, but hey we only live once right ?

 

Looking forward to read more about you Leica users and how you use and what the up/down`s are with rangefinders.

 

Best regards -

 

Tore

Norway

[jaapv]

Welcome, Tore You'll find plenty of friendly and helpful folks here.

[SJP]

Welcome, Tore You'll find plenty of friendly and helpful folks here.

Except me:D Welcome Tore

[TacTZilla]

Hi Tore.

 

I'm starting to enjoy the process much more now as I've just let go any frustrations I may have had. I'm just learning to use this camera to the best of my ability and I do believe it will make me a better photographer in the long run.

 

Thanks for the kind words too.

Regards

Bob

[TacTZilla]

Glitch in the matrix.

[Jerry_R]

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So forget the history, mythology, folklore, and the other muckety muck about Leicas and just bail back to the slr photography that your enjoy and that allows you to concentrate on the images rather than the tool

Interesting reading, on the subject: Is there an M9 “State of Mind”?? | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

[Pophoto]

I have a D700 and just bought the M9 before xmas.

No way I am giving up my D700. It just isn't possible for the M9 to replace it. Fact.

My D700 is my money maker, and it's my go to camera for shooting fast moving objects like my pups.

That said, I took both on my xmas trip to Europe and guess which kit almost never left the hotel room and when it did I almost wished it didn't.

The M9 was just so much more fun and easy to travel with all day.

I posted this gallery here before, but if you haven't seen it, please take a look.

All but two of the images were taken with the M9 and 35 'cron. And if I didn't tell you which two were the D700, I bet you'd think they were the M9. The end images are usually going to be too close to call, especially viewed online. It's more the experience of the M9 that is so wonderful. Of course the 18mp is nice too.

 

Europe 2009

 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head there

I love my D700, and I too would never give it up! The M9 is just a wonderful experience and it just surprises you when images are so crisp or bordering magical (I'm not that good yet!). Again, when you take the so called mediocre images from any camera into LR or whichever program you use, you might be hard pressed to observe which camera it came from.

 

The more I shoot with the M9, the harder I realise I need to think and observe, which in my opinion is great. It also makes me realise in what situations I might switch to a different camera for what I have in mind. It's the whole buzz, and without the M9 in my life (sorry, first Leica), I wouldn't be thinking like this, perhaps this is a phase, however, I am still on the journey! Hope this all makes sense.... (Don't struggle, just let it take you for the ride!)

 

 

 

 

pophoto

[ken_tanaka]

Interesting reading, on the subject: Is there an M9 “State of Mind”?? | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

 

Thank you for the link to that piece, Jerry.

 

Certainly Steve Huff makes keen points that transcend the Leica Mx. I am frequently adamant that only the final image matters, that how you achieved it is trivial. Certainly at the highest level, from the viewer's perspective, that's a self-evident truth.

 

But the experience of performing photography does matter and does affect that end product. In that regard the camera you use (i.e. your comfort with it, your familiarity with it, your deftness with it, and most importantly its suitability to task) represents a major factor in that experience.

 

There are many facts and truths that, at face, undeniably contradict most claims that M shooters often make in favor of these cameras. But it's equally undeniable that there is an "x" factor at work behind every earnest shutterbug. Whether a Leica camera or a p&s ushers zeitgeist to a photographer is unimportant compared to the zeitgeist being present.

 

Ammendment: I would add that, in the same vein, many amateurs become seduced by technology and technique (either low or high) and never develop any genuine aesthetic sense. They bounce from camera to camera, between film and digital, but produce dreadful, unskilled and uninspired imagery in each fad. I cannot say that I see better photography from owners of one camera line versus another, or from film versus digital snappers. There are many people (mostly men) who spend copious annual sums on camera gear who have absolutely no eye or intellectual connection for photography. The snap their lives, their kids, their travels with the same dull-minded and uninspired energy, excited mainly by the hammer rather than what they're building. (And, yes, Leicaphiles are among the most often indicted groups in this description.) That's fine for personal purposes, but it's not fine when these folks try to hold such imagery as evidence of technical superiority.

 

In contrast, there are many people who own no photo gear but who buy disposable film cameras and consistently create simply wonderful imagery. when the mood strikes them.

 

So, zeitgeist or not, talent, imagination, and training are perhaps the heaviest factors in producing results with any camera.

[AlbertoDeRoma]

Thank you for the link to that piece, Jerry.

 

Certainly Steve Huff makes keen points that transcend the Leica Mx. I am frequently adamant that only the final image matters, that how you achieved it is trivial. Certainly at the highest level, from the viewer's perspective, that's a self-evident truth.

 

But the experience of performing photography does matter and does affect that end product. In that regard the camera you use (i.e. your comfort with it, your familiarity with it, your deftness with it, and most importantly its suitability to task) represents a major factor in that experience.

 

There are many facts and truths that, at face, undeniably contradict most claims that M shooters often make in favor of these cameras. But it's equally undeniable that there is an "x" factor at work behind every earnest shutterbug. Whether a Leica camera or a p&s ushers zeitgeist to a photographer is unimportant compared to the zeitgeist being present.

 

Ammendment: I would add that, in the same vein, many amateurs become seduced by technology and technique (either low or high) and never develop any genuine aesthetic sense. They bounce from camera to camera, between film and digital, but produce dreadful, unskilled and uninspired imagery in each fad. I cannot say that I see better photography from owners of one camera line versus another, or from film versus digital snappers. There are many people (mostly men) who spend copious annual sums on camera gear who have absolutely no eye or intellectual connection for photography. The snap their lives, their kids, their travels with the same dull-minded and uninspired energy, excited mainly by the hammer rather than what they're building. (And, yes, Leicaphiles are among the most often indicted groups in this description.) That's fine for personal purposes, but it's not fine when these folks try to hold such imagery as evidence of technical superiority.

 

In contrast, there are many people who own no photo gear but who buy disposable film cameras and consistently create simply wonderful imagery. when the mood strikes them.

 

So, zeitgeist or not, talent, imagination, and training are perhaps the heaviest factors in producing results with any camera.

 

Interesting discussion.

 

In my case, I am 100% convinced that the experience is very much tied to the tools being used. For some reason, despite huge excitement, my passion for photography died with my first DSLR (Nikon D100). Whenever I was out taking pictures, I came back with some really good ones ... but I was rarely out taking pictures.

 

By contrast, with the Digilux 2 and M8, I can't wait for the week-end to go out and take photos.

 

The #1 preconditions to capturing wonderful pictures is to be out there taking photos in the first place. So, at least to me, a camera that makes me excited about being out and about to photograph things is key. And in my case, Leicas create that excitement - and keep the photo sessions fun and engaging.

 

What camera you bond with is obviously a very personal decision. I would not trade even one my 3 "lowly" Digilux 2 for the latest D3, while one my best friends loves his D3 and thinks I'm crazy for "wasting time" with a 5MP D2.

 

Alberto

[markpsf]

Wandered in here from another Leica forum because I'm considering the M9.

Fell in love with the M8.2 a few weeks ago and want to take it one step further.

As some have noted, the very act of falling in love is not rational and analyzing the reason doesn't ever quite capture it.

When I fell in love with my wife, on our first date, I told her she just felt like "home" to me in the best sense.

The Leica feels like "home" to me, having grown up doing street shooting in NY at the age of 14 with a Voigtlander.

It doesn't matter to me whether my former Nikon D90 or the Minolta that preceded it were faster or easier to focus or produced better photos:...they never felt right. I hated the amount of time I spent futzing around with the menus.

And for my use (no sports photography, no interest in super macro work, not a wildlife shooter) shooting people and city and town scapes, it feels perfect.

I loved my 8.2 immediately. 8.2 or 9 or wife, there's always learning to do and maybe even a

challenge or two along the way;), but the gut feeling, the pleasure, is not a matter of analysis.

 

Mark

[peter_n]

You will get to hear the full story soon as I had a major newspaper do a 400 mile round trip to interview me about it. Hopefully it should help change current polic(e)y throughout the UK.

I assume this is the story, quite a story it is too!

[TacTZilla]

I assume this is the story, quite a story it is too!

 

 

It is Peter.

 

There's a thread here......

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/47709-advice-photographers-uk-my-fellow-criminals-33.html#post1239441

 

Cheers

Bob

[BubbaandTippy]

Hi,

I too have been struggling with the thought of an M9 since it was announced. I have one on order and my dealer indicated Leica said the shipment would be in this week. So now its put pu or shut up time.

I have been shooting for the past 19 years with a Mamiya 6, and while I like the results I get, scanning transparencies has gotten to be just too much drudgery. The accoutrements that go along with the Mamiya have also gotten old - lots of film, light meter, tripod, etc. At the end of a 12 mile hike with my system last August, I told myself that I'd get something that could shoot at or near the same quality but with much less weight and instant feedback to confirm that I "got" the shot.

I've been monitoring this and other forums since August 2009 and really like the M9 and have been impressed with many of the results. The only reservation that I have is the ability that some photographers have to get excellent results with the Four Thirds cameras. I know the Leica would be better, but is the extra expense and work needed to get the shot really worth it?

With the pace of development in the digital world, I wonder if the M9 is a worthwhile investment. I know the lenses are worth it, but the body...

Convince me that the M9 is the way to go.

[Jamie Roberts]

Hi,

I too have been struggling with the thought of an M9 since it was announced. I have one on order and my dealer indicated Leica said the shipment would be in this week. So now its put pu or shut up time.

 

I have been shooting for the past 19 years with a Mamiya 6, and while I like the results I get, scanning transparencies has gotten to be just too much drudgery. The accoutrements that go along with the Mamiya have also gotten old - lots of film, light meter, tripod, etc. At the end of a 12 mile hike with my system last August, I told myself that I'd get something that could shoot at or near the same quality but with much less weight and instant feedback to confirm that I "got" the shot.

 

I've been monitoring this and other forums since August 2009 and really like the M9 and have been impressed with many of the results. The only reservation that I have is the ability that some photographers have to get excellent results with the Four Thirds cameras. I know the Leica would be better, but is the extra expense and work needed to get the shot really worth it?

 

With the pace of development in the digital world, I wonder if the M9 is a worthwhile investment. I know the lenses are worth it, but the body...

 

Convince me that the M9 is the way to go.

 

Um, it's totally apples and oranges, just on the viewfinder, IMO. But also :

 

Crop factor on 4/3 or micro 4/3 sucks. It's up to 50% of the lens, which means you're looking at sketchy stuff at the wide end, and little separation at the long end.

 

1.33 crop is the most I'll accept.

 

12bpp AD CMOS sensors are no great hell, either. None (yet) are fast enough. None (yet) are really solid enough, either.

 

Current EVFs also really truly suck compared with a RF, even when they're good relative to crappier EVFs Oh wait--I said that already

[AlbertoDeRoma]

Convince me that the M9 is the way to go. /QUOTE]

 

Before committing to the M9, I would definitely invest $2500-3000 on an M8(.2 or u) + an relatively inexpensive lens to see how well you get along with the Leica "way" and ergonomics.

 

Alberto

[londonuk]

I am on the edge of the cliff. A brief history. I have been a professional photographer for 25 years always using Canons and latterly D3. My work is TV promotional photography usually in low light hence the D3's.

But, I'm utterly bored senseless with using the Nikons. it's partly the nature of what I do, most scenes are lit by the DOP (director of photography) and they are directed (the actors/entertainers) by, well, the director.

These brilliant Nikons just do everything for you. It's very very dull. I literally just point and shoot.

Now, to re engage myself with the craft of photography I'm almost certainly buying an M9.

I have used Leicas before but have always sold them on as I never really used them much.

Today I visited the Leica store in London where they let me shoot a few frames on my SD card.

Now, I'm home and looking at these pictures. There are a few oddities in a couple of the pictures.

A white door in one of the jpegs has a pink streak on it but not on any of the DNG's, is this moire ?

On the other hand I've printed off a rough 50% crop and it looks pretty good.

so, do I jump or not ? I really have the need to get myself taking pictures again,pictures for me.

I'm hoping that using an M9 will do this for me and that I can get competent enough for me to use it for my work. It's just such a lot of money !!!!!!!!!! I would appreciate your wise words.

 

Neil Genower - Portfolio

[jaapv]

Well - it will certainly make your photographic life interesting again... Whether you take to the back-to-the-basics is of course a completely personal thing, but if you have the inclination to get into photography as opposed to recording, I feel you have a pretty good chance of making the best decision of your life (apart from marrying your wife I hope) by buying into the Leica M digital system. I'm sure the pros on this forum will have something to say about the subject, but looking at your excellent website I see great Leica-potential in your subject matter.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jerry_R]

The only reservation that I have is the ability that some photographers have to get excellent results with the Four Thirds cameras. I know the Leica would be better, but is the extra expense and work needed to get the shot really worth it? [...]

Convince me that the M9 is the way to go.

Both u43 and Leica can be very good tools to enjoy photography. I used all that appeared in u43 since its beginning. I entered it - because of size and weight. My 5D was staying at home to often.

 

I could start writing you about many technical differencies, etc. But it is not the point. If want have a look on samples:

Crazy Comparison Day #3, the Panasonic GH1, Olympus E-P2 & Leica M9 | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

or

Testing Lens Bokeh on Full Frame and Micro 4/3 cameras | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

 

I can send you studio portrait made with GH1 and M9. Just give me an email.

 

But what I can tell you is - using M9 dramatically changed my adventure with photography. I even didn't expect it. Suddenly, I forgot about all settings in menu, I mostly compose and think. Instead of hundreds of shots, I have few. My ration between deleted and kept drastically went up. I open RAW in LR and need to make much less adjustments. All pictures do not require big sharpening or noise removing (in comparison to u43). Results remind me analog times. That can't be said about u43, unless you remove noise a lot.

[menos I M6]

…

I'm hoping that using an M9 will do this for me and that I can get competent enough for me to use it for my work. It's just such a lot of money !!!!!!!!!! I would appreciate your wise words.

 

Neil Genower - Portfolio

 

Neil, if your business can stem a 10.000,- EUR investment in one M9 and 2 or 3 lenses, you surely have nothing to loose, as these cameras (and lenses) have a pretty high demand these days, making a resale after tryout less adventurous.

 

The use between a D3 and a digital M can be very different, albeit the M9 does allow for some similar automation as a D3 with Auto ISO and AE activated.

This makes for a very smooth intermediate time of enjoying to focus manually and meter the scene with a center weighted meter (which a lot of Nikon shooters also do with their D3).

 

If it would be a private undergoing or if the money is spare, buying a preowned M8/ M8.2 and 2 lenses with reasonable warranty is a very valid way to test drive, yet even stick with the digital M system.

 

I have read about great deals in the UK with certain dealers unloading sealed, new M8/ M8.2 bodies as "demo models" for very low prices with proper warranty.

This might be a reasonable way to go.

 

I am an amateur shooter and use one D3 with some Nikon glass. I sold my D300 and half my Nikon AF lenses, when I first dipped my toes into Leica with a M6, then an additional M7 and finally an M8.2.

 

I am very, very happy with what I got. I had a close decision between a new M9 with waiting time and picking up a used M8 for a good price.

The price jacking on M9 bodies with advertised new prices around 6.500 − 7.000,- EUR (!!!) quickly turned me away from a M9 now. I understand, this is different in Europe.

 

Good luck with your decision and don't be afraid of picking up a digital M - they are all, that is advertised and very different to a late Nikon auto focus SLR.