Leica 135/4 Tele-Elmar M

[k-hawinkler]

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Simon,

 

Now if you really want to get far from your subjects.......

 

Wilson

 

Wilson,

 

Looks intriguing. I might be tempted if I had enough information.

What are all the pieces one needs to put together to get a functioning system?

Also, when was the last time these things were manufactured?

What is a rough cost estimate aside from the actual camera?

 

I followed this recent thread with amazement: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/109765-5-japanese-split-prism-focusing-bright.html

 

Thanks for a reply, k-hawinkler

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[swamiji]

Looks to be a Visoflex III and Telyt 560mm. Depending on the condition about $300 (US) for Visoflex III and about $1100 (US) for the Telyt 560. Great combination... needs a very stable tripod... The Telyt comes with a shoulder stock, IHO tripod is required.

[k-hawinkler]

Looks to be a Visoflex III and Telyt 560mm. Depending on the condition about $300 (US) for Visoflex III and about $1100 (US) for the Telyt 560. Great combination... needs a very stable tripod... The Telyt comes with a shoulder stock, IHO tripod is required.

 

Many thanks for the info.

What's an IHO tripod?

I have a sturdy Gitzo with RRS ball head. Would that work?

[swamiji]

Many thanks for the info.

What's an IHO tripod?

I have a sturdy Gitzo with RRS ball head. Would that work?

 

In my Honest Opinion a tripod is required.

 

Depends on the Gitzo/ball head and the environment. I use a Gitzo Leveler and a Gitzo series 2 ball head , and it works pretty well, except for the windiest conditions.

[k-hawinkler]

Thanks. Got it. Just being tired I guess.

[swamiji]

Thanks. Got it. Just being tired I guess.

 

P.S. It take a Series VII filter.

[wlaidlaw]

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Wilson,

 

Looks intriguing. I might be tempted if I had enough information.

What are all the pieces one needs to put together to get a functioning system?

Also, when was the last time these things were manufactured?

What is a rough cost estimate aside from the actual camera?

 

I followed this recent thread with amazement: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/109765-5-japanese-split-prism-focusing-bright.html

 

Thanks for a reply, k-hawinkler

 

The whole kit has 7 bits

 

1) A Visoflex III (II will not fit on M6 TTL, M7, MP, M8 or M9)

2) A Televit fast focus mount to the Viso (also holds the Series VII filter) - it is the bit with the pistol grip on it.

3) The Aperture tube

4) 400mm F5.6 Telyt head

5) 560mm f5.6 Telyt head

6) Two piece shoulder stock

7) A Visoflex M mount to 'R' mount adapter or Visoflex M to Leicaflex

 

It is getting increasingly difficult and expensive to find an entire kit. Be careful as well, since a number of the kits advertised are the later R mount only Televit and will not fit on a Visoflex. For a complete nice condition kit, I would guess you would have to pay around £1300/$2000. I think the M Visoflex kit was last made in the mid 1970's but as it was far from a fast seller, there was probably new stock hanging around for some years after that. I bought mine from the original owner and he said he was able to do a very good deal on the kit, as it had been sitting on the shelf in the Leica agent in Bahrain for some considerable time. The 400 is a better quality lens than the 560. These are not technically telephoto lenses but just long focus lenses, as they are physically as long as their focal length. They are pretty simple with just the one lens group at the front of the lens.

 

Changing the screen makes the Televit/Telyt much easier to focus. It is not quite as straightforward as the referred thread suggests. The focus plane of the Nikon screen takes some shimming above and below the screen to avoid back/front focus. You would think it should just sit on the Visoflex body with some shim above, as the focus plane of the original glass screen is on the bottom side but it did not work out like that for me. I had to do a lot of playing around with shims until I got my Elmar 65 absolutely spot on. I assumed that the longer lenses would be more critical but that did not seem to be the case. I guess that a small change in the screen position is a larger proportionate error with a short lens exit pupil to screen distance than with a longer one. You will find that a Minolta screen is an even better fit but I found the microprisms too coarse and half of the split image tended to black out.

 

Wilson

[jaapv]

Looks to be a Visoflex III and Telyt 560mm. Depending on the condition about $300 (US) for Visoflex III and about $1100 (US) for the Telyt 560. Great combination... needs a very stable tripod... The Telyt comes with a shoulder stock, IHO tripod is required.

You'd be surprised. I have the 400 Novoflex in a similar setup. It can be handheld down to 1/60, just as litterature from the period suggests.

[wlaidlaw]

You'd be surprised. I have the 400 Novoflex in a similar setup. It can be handheld down to 1/60, just as litterature from the period suggests.

 

Jaap,

 

You must have much steadier hands than me. I find my limit is about 1/250 on the 400 and 1/500 on the 560, handheld. I mainly use a Manfrotto 074B tripod and 0222 joystick head. The 074B would have probably sufficed as a weapon of mass destruction, if they had found one in Saddam's palace.

 

Wilson

[k-hawinkler]

The whole kit has 7 bits

 

1) A Visoflex III (II will not fit on M6 TTL, M7, MP, M8 or M9)

2) A Televit fast focus mount to the Viso (also holds the Series VII filter) - it is the bit with the pistol grip on it.

3) The Aperture tube

4) 400mm F5.6 Telyt head

5) 560mm f5.6 Telyt head

6) Two piece shoulder stock

7) A Visoflex M mount to 'R' mount adapter or Visoflex M to Leicaflex

 

It is getting increasingly difficult and expensive to find an entire kit. Be careful as well, since a number of the kits advertised are the later R mount only Televit and will not fit on a Visoflex. For a complete nice condition kit, I would guess you would have to pay around £1300/$2000. I think the M Visoflex kit was last made in the mid 1970's but as it was far from a fast seller, there was probably new stock hanging around for some years after that. I bought mine from the original owner and he said he was able to do a very good deal on the kit, as it had been sitting on the shelf in the Leica agent in Bahrain for some considerable time. The 400 is a better quality lens than the 560. These are not technically telephoto lenses but just long focus lenses, as they are physically as long as their focal length. They are pretty simple with just the one lens group at the front of the lens.

 

Changing the screen makes the Televit/Telyt much easier to focus. It is not quite as straightforward as the referred thread suggests. The focus plane of the Nikon screen takes some shimming above and below the screen to avoid back/front focus. You would think it should just sit on the Visoflex body with some shim above, as the focus plane of the original glass screen is on the bottom side but it did not work out like that for me. I had to do a lot of playing around with shims until I got my Elmar 65 absolutely spot on. I assumed that the longer lenses would be more critical but that did not seem to be the case. I guess that a small change in the screen position is a larger proportionate error with a short lens exit pupil to screen distance than with a longer one. You will find that a Minolta screen is an even better fit but I found the microprisms too coarse and half of the split image tended to black out.

 

Wilson

 

Wilson,

 

Many thanks for the concise information.

 

With best regards, k-hawinkler

[jaapv]

Jaap,

 

You must have much steadier hands than me. I find my limit is about 1/250 on the 400 and 1/500 on the 560, handheld. I mainly use a Manfrotto 074B tripod and 0222 joystick head. The 074B would have probably sufficed as a weapon of mass destruction, if they had found one in Saddam's palace.

 

Wilson

I think the difference is that the Novoflex is laid out for a doublehanded grip. The right hand takes the front grip with the shutter button, the left hand the focussing grip. So squeeze the lens ito focus with the left hand and release by applyng the right index finger. Extremely stable and a lot better than the single grip Leica system. Now if I could only find a 600 mm lenshead for the rig...

 

Here is a shot with the lens still rigged with an electric release . For the Visoflex I obviously use the cable release, which is still available through Novoflex.

 

 

[sclamb]

Simon,

 

Now if you really want to get far from your subjects.......

 

Wilson

 

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Simon

[tdtaylor]

While this thread has taken on a fascinating life (which I am enjoying), I did end up purchasing an excellent condition 135mm Tele Elmar- About $300 US. It was front focusing about 2 cm, so off to Sherry K. it went. I have had all my other lenses (not 6 bit) reworked by Milich- I don't see much purpose in having this lenses grooved for 6 bit coding- plus the mounting plate is very different from my other lenses.

 

Keep up the thread- I have always been fascinated by the 560 f6.8. I have a Nikon 600 AFSII I use, and am intrigued by the differences with these lenses.

[swamiji]

While this thread has taken on a fascinating life (which I am enjoying), I did end up purchasing an excellent condition 135mm Tele Elmar- About $300 US. It was front focusing about 2 cm, so off to Sherry K. it went. I have had all my other lenses (not 6 bit) reworked by Milich- I don't see much purpose in having this lenses grooved for 6 bit coding- plus the mounting plate is very different from my other lenses.

 

Keep up the thread- I have always been fascinated by the 560 f6.8. I have a Nikon 600 AFSII I use, and am intrigued by the differences with these lenses.

 

Can I assume that at $300 it's the older Tele-Elmar. If so you will find it multi-functional. If you get a Visoflex III you can adapt it for use, both normal and close focusing. Also it can be adapted to be used on the Bellows II for Macro work.

 

If you go down the path of the 560mm and acquire a Visoflex III, you can use your Tele Elmar on it as well (with the appropriate adapter of course).

[wlaidlaw]

Can I assume that at $300 it's the older Tele-Elmar. If so you will find it multi-functional. If you get a Visoflex III you can adapt it for use, both normal and close focusing. Also it can be adapted to be used on the Bellows II for Macro work.

 

If you go down the path of the 560mm and acquire a Visoflex III, you can use your Tele Elmar on it as well (with the appropriate adapter of course).

 

FYI - 16464K - plenty of them around.

 

Wilson

[swamiji]

FYI - 16464K - plenty of them around.

 

Wilson

 

AKA OTZFO

 

For close focus get the 16471 (OTRPO) as well.

 

For Bellows II the 16558 adapter (this adapter often comes with the Bellows II)

[wlaidlaw]

AKA OTZFO

 

For close focus get the 16471 (OTRPO) as well.

 

For Bellows II the 16558 adapter (this adapter often comes with the Bellows II)

 

Here is a copy of the pages from the Viso manual and accessory catalogue.

 

I am not sure of the purpose of 16472/OTSRO tube is as they already show a close focus extension ring the 16471/OTPRO as you say. The Leica accessories manual only says as shown below.

 

Wilson

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[swamiji]

This chart omits the 16472/OTSRO.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wlaidlaw]

I have a feeling that the adapters are incorrectly shown in the illustration in the English Visoflex III manual, which I posted and correctly in the German one you have posted. The OTSRO/16472 should have been in red and shown alongside the OTPRO/16471 as an alternative. The implication that you need a OTSRO/16472 for normal focusing with an Elmar/Hektor is wrong. As I had a copy of the manual before I had a Visoflex, I very nearly bought a 16472 - fine if I wanted to do a lot of close focus macro work but I don't.

 

Wilson

[swamiji]

I have a feeling that the adapters are incorrectly shown in the illustration in the English Visoflex III manual, which I posted and correctly in the German one you have posted. The OTSRO/16472 should have been in red and shown alongside the OTPRO/16471 as an alternative. The implication that you need a OTSRO/16472 for normal focusing with an Elmar/Hektor is wrong. As I had a copy of the manual before I had a Visoflex, I very nearly bought a 16472 - fine if I wanted to do a lot of close focus macro work but I don't.

 

Wilson

 

Actually of all the Visoflex write-ups, in your chart is the first time I had seen a OTSRO.I don't know what it's for exactly, but I placed an order for one. When it arrives I will find out.

 

I do a fair amount of close focus, but so far I have not attempted to use the 135 directly on the Visoflex. Normally I use the bellows.