How "Leica" are the Panasonic "Lumix" Lenses?

[jerryjg]

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How "Leica" are the Panasonic "Lumix" Point and Shoot Digital Camera Lenses?

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[dhsimmonds]

Not all Panasonic compact cameras have the magic word "Leica" on them but I believe that the Lumix brand do have lenses that carry the Leica name and some also the Leica model ie "vario Summicron" if it is an F2 max aperture lens.

 

I have always surmised that Leica would have approved the design specifications of such lenses before entering an agreement to license their name/model nomenclature in this way and that some commercial "consideration" would have transpired between the parties.

 

It does leave in my mind though, the question of why some Pana cameras don't bear the famous marque's name! Did they not stand up to the scrutineers form Solms? Or perhaps the Pana people decided just to go it alone to test the water so to speak.....who knows.

 

What I do know is that of the half dozen or so cameras from the LC1, Lumix to little compacts that I have used, the "leica" branded lens is excellent for the size of sensor covered.

[ho_co]

From the old forum:

PANASONIC LENSES BY LEICA

 

Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 03:26 am:

Here is the whole story (at least as told by Panasonic):

 

"Leica is a registered trademark of Leica Microsystems IR GmbH.

Elmarit is registered trademarks of Leica Camera AG.

The LEICA DC VARIO-ELMARIT lenses are manufactured using measurement instruments and quality assurance systems that have been certified by Leica Camera AG based on the company's quality standards."

 

It would appear that the setting of tolerances during manufacture and checking of quality afterwards are done under the (distant?) supervision of Leica.

 

Does the original design come from Leica? Perhaps not! see this also on the Panasonic Japanese site:

 

""Today, Panasonic and Leica Camera AG have built a solid relationship as partners. In the beginning, though, there were some difficulties to iron out."

The lens on the DMC-LC20, which was marketed in April 2002, marked the first-generation lens to come from this collaboration. Ishiguro reflects on its rocky start, "We didn't get approval for the first lens that we submitted. In fact, right from the very start we had a sense that the collaboration itself was in danger. The problem wasn't in the lens itself, it was the fact that our appreciation of 'photorealism' had not yet reached the level that Leica Camera AG wanted."

 

"Panasonic had been accumulating lens technology for about 20 years at that point. It had a proud history of developing many advanced technologies and products, such as the aspherical lens, that far exceeded the abilities of many other manufacturers in the industry. However, when it came to know-how about photorealism, that is, the art of forming highly nuanced images with a still camera, Panasonic was in an early learning stage.

 

"Ishiguro explained, "For the DMC-LC20, Leica Camera AG insisted that we work more on resolution and distortion*. The level that they were aiming at called for much more than just making a few corrections. Responding to this was a major undertaking, partly because we were working against a deadline. Somehow, after revising the specifications and getting the factory to help us in our response, we were able to attain the level we needed.""

 

In a nutshell, Panasonic's "Leica lenses" are manufactured in Japan by Panasonic (or a sub-contractor?) to designs and quality standards approved by Leica. In the past such collaborations were not so frankly described, but nowadays modern consumer and trading standards legislation requires otherwise.

 

WN (wneilson)

Member

Username: wneilson

 

Post Number: 44

Registered: 01-2005

 

 

Leica Camera AG

 

[ho_co]

As for why some current lenses are "Lumix" and some are "Leica," Leica does not want their name to appear on lenses for which final correction information is done by firmware or written to file for post-processing.

 

See Andy's http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/113695-panasonic-still-using-leica-lens.html#post1206557.

[Digitom]

That is sure one reason.

At Berlin International consumer Fair "IFA" 2009 I have been at Panasonic presentation and asked for exactly that point (Lumix lenses, no Leica lenses?). They at Panasonic told me that ALL lenses used in the Panasonic digital cameras are finally Leica lenses (sure made in Japan) but all these branding has to do with the point you mentioned and also with the price of the camera. Means: Leica get some money when Panasonic is labeling Leicas brand on the camera, and if not, they get no money. Also maybe the endcontrol of lens manufactoring is better when there is a "Leica-label" on the lens. I think the contract between the two companies is maybe very complex but in general both have profits from each other. But I have to say: If I buy a small compact camera and if I decide for a Panasonic, I would prefer to have a lens with leica-Label.

[miami91]

As for why some current lenses are "Lumix" and some are "Leica," Leica does not want their name to appear on lenses for which final correction information is done by firmware or written to file for post-processing.

 

See Andy's http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/113695-panasonic-still-using-leica-lens.html#post1206557.

 

 

Well, it doesn't seem this is expressly true. We had quite a number of conversations when the D-Lux 4 (and Panasonic sister LX3) was first introduced as to the "fish-eye" nature of that lens at wide-angle settings, and how this is corrected internally by firmware (for the jpgs) and external RAW processor for the .RWL files. Yet this lens, and indeed the camera itself in the case of the D-Lux 4, bear the Leica moniker.

 

Jeff.

[ho_co]

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Good point. My point was too generally stated. To be more exact:

 

Remember that Leica asked Phase One to disable the creation of DNGs from the D-Lux 4 because they revealed the in-camera post-processing.

 

Recall also that JPGs from the D-Lucis 4, 3 and (possibly?) 2 also include on-board corrections.

 

So Leica's demand is that these corrections be transparent to the user.

 

Thus, anything goes in digicams so long as it's hidden. But with interchangeable lenses, Leica wants the lens to do the work and not the in-camera post-processing.

 

The principle is the same, but the practice is different in the nomenclature of interchangeable and non-interchangeable lenses.

 

Thanks for catching my over-generalization, Jeff.

[miami91]

Good point. My point was too generally stated. To be more exact:

 

Remember that Leica asked Phase One to disable the creation of DNGs from the D-Lux 4 because they revealed the in-camera post-processing.

 

Recall also that JPGs from the D-Lucis 4, 3 and (possibly?) 2 also include on-board corrections.

 

So Leica's demand is that these corrections be transparent to the user.

 

Thus, anything goes in digicams so long as it's hidden. But with interchangeable lenses, Leica wants the lens to do the work and not the in-camera post-processing.

 

The principle is the same, but the practice is different in the nomenclature of interchangeable and non-interchangeable lenses.

 

Thanks for catching my over-generalization, Jeff.

 

I wasn't trying to nit pic Howard, and thanks for your clarification, which makes sense to me. Yes, I think Leica holds interchangeable lenses (and the accompanying pro and advanced-amateur systems) to a different standard, as well they should. With compact digicams, we really need to expect that there's some electronic wizardry going on, or the camera will likely cease to be compact.

 

Jeff.

[stuny]

Additionally, perhaps the lower priced Lumix cameras without Leica on the lens help Panasonic meet price points by not having to pay the license fees to Leica.

[steve70]

Hello,

I do not know how relevant this is, but back when the Leica CL was around, and than the Minolta CLE was introduced, the fist 90mm f4 Minolta lenses had "Rokkor" on the filter tread, and the filter size was 40.5mm instead of the Leica 39mm, but on the side of the lens in front of the lens mount it clearly said, "Made in Germany".

Is possible that Leica provides the glass and Panasonic assembles them? Less labor costs.