jlam Posted January 26, 2010 Share #1 Posted January 26, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just received my M9 last week and also got a new 18mm Super Elmar. I'm amazed by the corner to corner sharpness of the lens wide-open. But there is a problem with red/magenta color shift along the left edge (attached). I've checked that lens detection is working fine. Has anyone seen this before? I've sent an email to Leica CS and will see what they have to say. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/110728-new-owner-red-edge-problem-with-18mm-se/?do=findComment&comment=1201076'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Hi jlam, Take a look here New owner, red edge problem with 18mm SE. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
D&A Posted January 26, 2010 Share #2 Posted January 26, 2010 Hi, Yes, Apparently it's seen with the Lecia 18mm, the Zeiss 18mm, the VC 15mm and 12mm using the M9. It's also possibly seen with some other lenses. Hopefully Leica will correct this with the next firmware update. A program called "Cornerfix" is able to deal with this in the meantime and is quite effective. I haven't used it yet on my files, but others who have tried it, said it virtually eliminates the red edge issue. Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billc Posted January 26, 2010 Share #3 Posted January 26, 2010 Correct, cornerfix does help but it is also necessary to shoot in dng uncompressed to reduce the red edge, I have the zeiss 18 mm with the same problem bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 26, 2010 Share #4 Posted January 26, 2010 cf: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/108078-m9-lenses-red-edge-problem.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/113252-zm-18mm-m9-downsides.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/107344-m9-cv15-getty-center-images.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alnitak Posted January 26, 2010 Share #5 Posted January 26, 2010 Correct, cornerfix does help but it is also necessary to shoot in dng uncompressed to reduce the red edge, I have the zeiss 18 mm with the same problembill Hunh? Shooting in DNG doesn't do anything to reduce the problem, but you do want to shoot in DNG if you are going to correct it with Cornerfix. FYI, to the OP, this is a well-known problem. The hope is that Leica will fix it in a firmware release. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlam Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share #6 Posted January 26, 2010 Thanks for all the replies. I'm glad that the issue isn't specific to my copy of lens. Looking forward to the next firmware version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGeoJO Posted January 26, 2010 Share #7 Posted January 26, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) We are not quite sure that Leica will address this issue with the next firmware, correct? We just hope.... I am considering getting this lens but I will probably stay put for the time being. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah_addis Posted January 26, 2010 Share #8 Posted January 26, 2010 I have the same problem with my coded 21mm Elmarit Asph. If it's not fixed in the next firmware it will be a huge problem. I didn't spend $7k on a camera so I would then be forced to do extra corrections in post just to use a Leica wide angle lens. The current situation is unacceptable. I've been using the 21 more often and also doing more color work--and it's a real headache to have to fix the photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennersten Posted January 26, 2010 Share #9 Posted January 26, 2010 Does a IR filter solve the situation short term? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonM Posted January 26, 2010 Share #10 Posted January 26, 2010 No. It's a problem with the differential path length of different wavelengths of visible light hitting the sensor and then the overcorrection that the camera is doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D&A Posted January 26, 2010 Share #11 Posted January 26, 2010 Hi Just a thought... Since the red edge is partly due to overcorrection (in response to correcting for the IR sensor filter)....if one used an IR filter on top of say one of the 18's (with the M9)...I would suppose that the red edge might be reduced or eliminated....but unfortunately at the expense of the other side of the image (initially unaffected by red edge)..to now display shades of cyan. Correct me if I am worng. Thanks! Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlam Posted January 27, 2010 Author Share #12 Posted January 27, 2010 I have the same problem with my coded 21mm Elmarit Asph. If it's not fixed in the next firmware it will be a huge problem. I didn't spend $7k on a camera so I would then be forced to do extra corrections in post just to use a Leica wide angle lens. The current situation is unacceptable. I've been using the 21 more often and also doing more color work--and it's a real headache to have to fix the photos. I wish Leica provides a way for us to do our own calibration in Lightroom (or better yet in the firmware), say by letting us shoot pictures of a white wall and have LR figure out the correction automatically. Kinda like what cornerfix does but integrated in the firmware/LR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreleon Posted January 27, 2010 Share #13 Posted January 27, 2010 Hi all, Of course I have the same problem with my M9 + CV15 and CV21. So I use CornerFix . To generate a profile I shoot through an even lighted white plastic throw away plate , lenses uncoded or coded as 21 or as Wate for the CV15. I could not see any difference between the two methods . It works ; Shooting a white wall did not . PP with CAptureOne seems better then CR or LR2.6.1 or LR3Beta where the images are said "damaged" ,albeit I could not see any "damage". Cheers . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 27, 2010 Share #14 Posted January 27, 2010 I have seen some examples of red edge posted here. It is of course difficult to judge the severity of the problem without testing against a neutral target. So I used my bathroom door for target. These shots were done with bounce flash. All lenses at infinity and 5.6. • 35mm Summilux ASPH. • 25mm Biogon 2.8 • 18mm Distagon 4.0, in this order. Straight JPG files. Judge for yourself. The old man from the Age of Redeye Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/110728-new-owner-red-edge-problem-with-18mm-se/?do=findComment&comment=1203040'>More sharing options...
D&A Posted January 27, 2010 Share #15 Posted January 27, 2010 Hi Lars, I'm still wondering if you (or someone else) performed the same test with the Zeiss 18mm, but instead put a UVIR filter on the lens...whether the left side red edge would be compensated for (since it's apparently due to overcorrection)....and the right side would only show possibly a hint of cyan...which is less offensive. Any change you might have a UVIR you could try this with? Thanks! Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 27, 2010 Share #16 Posted January 27, 2010 From what I know - testing with neutral and natural backgrounds - with the M8 and the Leica 3.8/18 there are big differences dependant on lighting (tungsten or other), exposure (much more severe with underexposure) and white balance (a little shift may cure it). I hope the whole issue is solved soon. In the german forum somebody reported that beta testers of the new firmware could not reproduce it in 120 shots with the 3.8/18 but he could not tell anything about non-Leica lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptiste Posted January 27, 2010 Share #17 Posted January 27, 2010 I have seen some examples of red edge posted here. It is of course difficult to judge the severity of the problem without testing against a neutral target. So I used my bathroom door for target. These shots were done with bounce flash. All lenses at infinity and 5.6. • 35mm Summilux ASPH. • 25mm Biogon 2.8 • 18mm Distagon 4.0, in this order. Straight JPG files. Judge for yourself. The old man from the Age of Redeye What appears curious to me is the non-symmetry of the phenomenon... Why is it so, while the system is symmetric? Because the incident light (of the speedlight) is itself not captured in the axis of the lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted January 27, 2010 Share #18 Posted January 27, 2010 What appears curious to me is the non-symmetry of the phenomenon... Why is it so, while the system is symmetric? Because the incident light (of the speedlight) is itself not captured in the axis of the lens? The "leftist-tendency" of the "red shift" is the most odd of many other unclear phenomenae of the whole issue. I don't know any convincing theory about this, and there are many theories in this forum. Best advice seems to be, to stay patient for a couple of days until we see the new firmware, where it hopefully is solved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptiste Posted January 27, 2010 Share #19 Posted January 27, 2010 The "leftist-tendency" of the "red shift" is the most odd of many other unclear phenomenae of the whole issue. I don't know any convincing theory about this, and there are many theories in this forum. Best advice seems to be, to stay patient for a couple of days until we see the new firmware, where it hopefully is solved. So it is finally about to be released? Good thing, I'm as well about to get my M9... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alnitak Posted January 27, 2010 Share #20 Posted January 27, 2010 Hi Lars, I'm still wondering if you (or someone else) performed the same test with the Zeiss 18mm, but instead put a UVIR filter on the lens...whether the left side red edge would be compensated for (since it's apparently due to overcorrection)....and the right side would only show possibly a hint of cyan...which is less offensive. Any change you might have a UVIR you could try this with? Thanks! Dave (D&A) It won't work, because this has nothing to do with IR light or IR pollution, but has everything to do with the in-camera corrections that are applied to deal with system vignetting, etc. Worse yet, using an IR filter with wide lenses on the M9 tends to exacerbate the "cyan drift" problem by allowing the camera to in effect over-correct. Leica themselves recommends NOT using the IR filters on the M9 for precisely this reason. As everyone has said, this appears be a problem only with certain Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses, and the Leica 18/3.8. There are isolated reports of it with the old 21/2.8 11134 Leica lens as well. The unifying theme of these lenses seems to be that they are older, non-retrofocus designs. The theory is that the in-camera corrections are either under or overcorrecting for the angle of incidence issues with these lenses, hence the wish for a firmware fix of some kind. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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