M8 and Old Glass

[menos I M6]

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thanks, dirk. i enjoyed my first visit to teknopunk very much.

 

cheers

 

rick

 

Thank you Rick ;-)

 

Here is a bit cheating (can't find a M9 and old glass thread on LUF):

 

M9 with Canon 85/1.8 and M8.2 with Canon 100/2 + a portrait, shot Today with the 85/1.8 and M9:

 

on flickr

 

on flickr

[zombii]

Nikkor SC 85/1.5@1.5

[menos I M6]

Nice Rod! I definitely would have asked her for a portrait - she looks like an interesting character!

 

Interesting lens you got there too - would love, to try one ;-)

[zombii]

Thanks Dirk. She is an interesting character and I'm going to try to set up something with her. When she's working at the restaurant, she kind of hides her looks with pigtails and glasses but I've seen her with her hair down and no glasses and she's really good looking.

 

Funny, I got the Nikkor for a real good price and then about a week later, the Heliar came along and it was just too good to pass up. Plus it's so easy to use that I haven't done much with the Nikkor. I decided I needed to get the Nikkor out though and I'm glad I did. I confirmed that it's sharp wide open. I had been looking at your Canon 85/1.8 posts and was thinking about that but I don't think I need one as I like this one a lot. The Nikkor is fairly compact but built like a tank. The added speed is a plus for me too. It had been CLA'd late last year and focus was spot on.

[menos I M6]

Rod, the interesting thing regarding the fast black Canon RF lenses is, that these are built with Aluminum barrels, over brass focus helicoids, very much like the later introduced Leitz black anodized lenses.

 

These black Canon lenses are basically the first line of modern lightweight RF lenses, but with exceptional glass and very nice mechanical construction.

 

Typically, old long lenses form that period and early used a similar design for the focus mount (the whole lens turns including aperture controls in front with a slow focussing mount.

 

This is for me one big reason, to prefer more modern lenses regarding quicker handling.

Nikkor lenses back then also used heavy brass barrels in chrome (later partly changing to enamel coated aluminum barrels, but still using brass heavily for mounts and part of the barrel).

 

This adds a second issue in handling those oldies - slow focussing, heavy and bulky.

 

The black Canon lenses were the first with select Leitz optics, to change that and are designed, to be very compact, light and easy handling.

 

The 85/1.8 is an extremely compact lens for it's speed and focal length.

It is actually more compact than the latest version of the Leica 90/2 pre ASPH:

 

"size comparison Leica 90 f2 vs Canon 85 f1.8" on flickr

 

The top of the line Canon lenses like the 50/0.95, 50/1.2, 35/1.8, 85/1.8, 100/2 are in fact built quite differently from the less expensive lenses in that still Today, these feel not "cheap" in operation.

The focussing on my 100/2 user is extremely smooth, without ANY play or wiggle, despite it's outer barrel shows clear signs of use.

The 85/1.8 in fact feels as smooth and solid as my 50/1 Noctilux, regarding it's focussing and aperture control !

 

I am extremely happy with these two lenses (and bought already a 135/3.5 black Canon, to compare to the APO-Telyt ;-) ).

 

The Nikkor 85/1.5 (and it's Canon and Leitz equivalent from the same era) is an interesting lens, to try, but I won't go out and use it, as of it's inconveniences.

I lost recently on a Leitz Summarex auction (these go extremely high these days) - this would be another of these crazy lenses (interesting, but not really a daily user, as of bulk, weight and usability, compared to more modern designs).

 

To contribute to the thread: here is a link, to the little number of photos in my flickr stream, I uploaded with either the Canon 100/2 or 85/1.8 so far.

 

I will definitely do more, carrying the 85/1.8 now with me every day.

[zombii]

Based on your picture, I'd say the Nikkor 85 is closer to the size of the Cron 90 than the Canon 85 but it's probably a bit heavier. It's got a long focus throw but the Canon 100 does too. What I like about the Heliar 75 is the short focus throw. However, I'll live with a long focus throw if the lens is fast and sharp. I'll keep an eye out for a Canon 85 though. The only ones I've seen are at Gokevin cameras and he's pretty proud of them.

Edited August 12, 2011 by zombii

[menos I M6]

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Based on your picture, I'd say the Nikkor 85 is closer to the size of the Cron 90 than the Canon 85 but it's probably a bit heavier. It's got a long focus throw but the Canon 100 does too. What I like about the Heliar 75 is the short focus throw. However, I'll live with a long focus throw if the lens is fast and sharp. I'll keep an eye out for a Canon 85 though. The only ones I've seen are at Gokevin cameras and he's pretty proud of them.

 

The 85/1.5 Nikkor is not comparable in size or weight to either the 90/2 late pre ASPH or Canon 85/1.8.

 

The Nikkor is a beast - both veeeery heavy and big.

 

The best indicator on how comparable focal lengths were made between the black Canon LTM lenses and the latest Nikon LTM lenses (chrome mount, chrome front, enamel barrel, aluminum tripod foot), is, to take a Canon 100/2 LTM in one hand and a Nikkor 105/2.5 in the other.

 

The Nikkor is HEAVY (this is not a difference in glass, but a heavy construction of the lens.

 

I highly prefer the Canons.

The issue is, that after Today's standards, neither lens lineup was only gems.

Both manufacturers had lemons and absolutely brilliant gems (the Nikkor 105/2.5 is one of the gems, as is the Canon 85/1.8)

 

I dig now deeper and deeper regarding these LTM lenses, it is a wonderful field.

Kevin camera list quite some wishful thinking prices on the auction site.

This could be an indicator though, where we are heading, if Leica M glass continues, to be in constraint availability, as people seek out and buy old glass.

 

I will continue, to shoot the 85/1.8 - it fits nice into the bag as an extra lens.

 

Here is three shots, I took with the Canon 85/1.8, shooting drive by photos out of the back of a car.

Recently, somebody here on the forum had proven me with extensive formulae, that it would be in fact impossible, to shoot such fast, long lenses wide open with the M8/M9, but I continue, to have ZERO difficulties, to shoot these beautiful lenses just like that.

It all is just a factor of how well they are mated to the camera and how accustomed you are of shooting like this:

 

"departed" on flickr

 

See the faint silhouette in the shadow? Any modern high contrast lens would have blocked that shadow and would erased the meaning of the photograph for me.

 

"…" on flickr

 

This was shot wide open @ f1.8 - you can actually count his eye lash hairs in the 1:1 crop - the Canon really is amazing sharp for a 50 year old lens.

 

"three taxi drivers" on flickr

 

This also is shot wide open, while waiting for traffic for a few seconds. I was amazed by the detail, the Canon pulled here in the close up view (cigarettes in hands, facial details, etc …

 

The lens actually feels very close now to me, to the Noctilux f1. You work them both very similar - long throw, veeeeeery precise and quick focussing for detail shots, etc…

The look has some similarities as well.

 

Oh and btw - the 85/1.8 does gorgeous colors, but I am not into color ;-)

It could be a great lens for the flower guys around here!

[zombii]

I agree about the weight but not about the size. The Nikkor is about 90mm long (front element to very back of rear element) by 59mm wide at the front bell. I'll try to get a picture of it on the camera tomorrow. As for color, Both the Nikkor 85 and 105 and the Canon 100 do very good color IMO.

 

I like your sample shots.

[maccaco]

This is a GREAT thread, no doubt!

[Guest jarski]

pre-war Sonnar 40 (originally for Tenax II) & M8 + Color Efex Pro.

 

Funky flare by Jarno Nevala, on Flickr

[bladerunner2000]

Keeping this thread alive.

Portraits with M8.2 and J-3.

Shot at 2.0, I believe.

 

 

Nice portraits. Do you need an adapter for this lens ? Thank you.

[roguewave]

Dirk, I like your B&W images & the sense of balance in the rendering. I know this thread is centered on old glass, but just want to mentioned that after using the Canon, I purchased one of the new Voightlader Heliar Classic 75 1,8 lenses. I love this lens for B&W work. It is very well crafted and a joy to use. For use with color, I found it to be very similar to my modern Zeiss optics, with a very clean & sharp rendering. It doesn't have a spectacular bokeh like the 75 lux, but in soft light, it can be more than just pleasing. At a price less than 25% of some of the other lenses, it's a real gem.

[Dougg]

Ben, you can be comforted by the thought that the optical elements of the 75 Heliar Classic are arranged and shaped very similarly to the old-glass Leitz 73mm Hektor... a fine connection to history! I have been using and liking the 75/1.8 on my M9...

[menos I M6]

Dirk, I like your B&W images & the sense of balance in the rendering. I know this thread is centered on old glass, but just want to mentioned that after using the Canon, I purchased one of the new Voightlader Heliar Classic 75 1,8 lenses. I love this lens for B&W work. It is very well crafted and a joy to use. For use with color, I found it to be very similar to my modern Zeiss optics, with a very clean & sharp rendering. It doesn't have a spectacular bokeh like the 75 lux, but in soft light, it can be more than just pleasing. At a price less than 25% of some of the other lenses, it's a real gem.

 

Thank you Ben.

As it happens, I went on a serious hunt for interesting, fast short teles over the last weeks.

I ended up, buying:

 

Canon 100/2 LTM

Canon 85/1.8 LTM

75 Lux v2

 

and just yesterday, finally bought:

 

Leitz Hektor 73/1.9

 

The Hektor will need a CLA, but the price was reasonable - I am very, very curious, how this one will be like.

 

I had a look at the Voigtlander, but frankly, I rather buy the real deal for the same money second hand and 70 years old, than the Japanese, optically improved version of it.

So far, I am impressed, that Cosina does give great options for a tight budget, but none of the CV lenses really sparked for me.

The nicest, I ever handled (and still keep curiously) is the 35/1.2.

 

I don't intend, to buy another.

I am all fallen for vintage glass now.

My favorite of the lot is at the moment clearly the exceptional Canon 85/1.9 - this is a landmark lens, still impressive by Today's standards in fact!

 

I will pick up my 75 Lux at a friends place later this year, didn't have the chance, to shoot it yet - might become another favorite of mine

 

All in all though, I feel most comfortable at 50mm - M8.2, M9 or film, the 50/1 will be the only lens, I never want to part with.

[zombii]

Thank you Ben.

As it happens, I went on a serious hunt for interesting, fast short teles over the last weeks.

I ended up, buying:

 

Canon 100/2 LTM

Canon 85/1.8 LTM

75 Lux v2

 

and just yesterday, finally bought:

 

Leitz Hektor 73/1.9

 

The Hektor will need a CLA, but the price was reasonable - I am very, very curious, how this one will be like.

 

I had a look at the Voigtlander, but frankly, I rather buy the real deal for the same money second hand and 70 years old, than the Japanese, optically improved version of it.

So far, I am impressed, that Cosina does give great options for a tight budget, but none of the CV lenses really sparked for me.

The nicest, I ever handled (and still keep curiously) is the 35/1.2.

 

I don't intend, to buy another.

I am all fallen for vintage glass now.

My favorite of the lot is at the moment clearly the exceptional Canon 85/1.9 - this is a landmark lens, still impressive by Today's standards in fact!

 

I will pick up my 75 Lux at a friends place later this year, didn't have the chance, to shoot it yet - might become another favorite of mine

 

All in all though, I feel most comfortable at 50mm - M8.2, M9 or film, the 50/1 will be the only lens, I never want to part with.

 

Dirk, you dog, I know which Hektor 73 you bought. I was looking at it but not too seriously. I had a 75 Lux but sold it right after I got the Heliar 75. The 75 Lux renders beautifully but I found it hard to focus and quite heavy. Considering the investment, I just wasn't using it enough. The Heliar is much easier to use and I've used it a lot more..

 

I did just buy a Canon 85/1.8. I should get it Thursday and I'm interested to see how it stands up to the Nikkor 85/1.5.

 

I want to see shots from the Hektor 73.

[menos I M6]

Dirk, you dog, I know which Hektor 73 you bought. I was looking at it but not too seriously. I had a 75 Lux but sold it right after I got the Heliar 75. The 75 Lux renders beautifully but I found it hard to focus and quite heavy. Considering the investment, I just wasn't using it enough. The Heliar is much easier to use and I've used it a lot more..

 

I did just buy a Canon 85/1.8. I should get it Thursday and I'm interested to see how it stands up to the Nikkor 85/1.5.

 

I want to see shots from the Hektor 73.

 

Haha - yes, it is at the moment with me in the bag, to get a first impression.

It needs a full CLA, as I knew from the seller.

I will do this after collecting all needed tools.

 

Yesterday, I cleaned and lubed the aperture ring assembly already, but could not reach into the optical cell and focus helicoid, as I am missing two specific tools, to do this.

 

The aperture feel gives me the goosebumps, as it feels like new now ;-)

I will share some photos, as soon, as the shoot everyone and everything phase is over, to get to know the new lens.

 

The glass is incredible, if the haze on the glass next to the aperture doesn't hide any bad surprises - both rear and front element are impeccable after cleaning - this was my biggest (and nicest) surprise Yesterday night - the lens is now 79 years old after all and shows some healthy brassing, proving, that it has been used quite a bit over the years.

 

I am seriously surprised by the wonderful built quality of Leitz glass even back in the early 1930s.

They do have something special - Leitz didn't take any shortcuts in the construction of this Hektor.

Many other lenses, I saw from later vintage and other manufacturers really show compromises in build and design.

 

Impressive stuff! I expected Leitz lenses from this vintage, to have a certain level of charming "crudeness" to them, but far off

Thank you Ernst Leitz and staff ;-)

[pgk]

21mm f/3.4 Super-Angulon-R on M8-2 - focus available down to 8" with a symmetrical lens so image quality remains high!

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/nature-wildlife/197274-funghi.html#post1809354

Edited August 23, 2011 by pgk

[Telyt2003]

Dirk,

thank you for so untiringly advertising the ('younger') Canon LTM lenses for use with the M8/M9 !

I am now giving the Canon 100/2 a try. It fits my late M8 nearly perfectly at all distances - without any adjustments, a fairly unexpected comportment.

First shots (from "the shoot everyone and everything phase") are promising in spite of the numerous cleaning marks on the front lens which the seller forgot to mention ...

 

(...)

As it happens, I went on a serious hunt for interesting, fast short teles over the last weeks.

I ended up, buying:

 

Canon 100/2 LTM

Canon 85/1.8 LTM

75 Lux v2

(...)

I am all fallen for vintage glass now.

My favorite of the lot is at the moment clearly the exceptional Canon 85/1.9 - this is a landmark lens, still impressive by Today's standards in fact!

(...)

Please forgive me, I just want to be sure: You were referring to the Canon 85/1,8 in both cases, were you?

I am just asking, because the (older) Canon 85/1,9 has a reputation considerably different form that of the 85/1,8.

 

(...)

All in all though, I feel most comfortable at 50mm - M8.2, M9 or film, the 50/1 will be the only lens, I never want to part with.

For me, it is comparable: My 50s are the most used lenses, independently of the format (M8 'half format' or M9/film 'full format').

Most of the 50 mm lenses, I only acquired after the M8 with its 'half format', i.e., the M8 gave use of the 50 mm focal length a clear advance ...

 

Best regards,

Telyt2003

[Brandon Skinner]

All,

 

Still very new to the Leica world. Since I currently have an M8 I am considering buying an Jupiter 8 50mm as a cheap and dirty little portrait lens.

 

A few questions...

 

a) is there such thing as a fake Jupiter 8 or are the real ones so cheap no one ever bothered copying them?

 

the J8's are always listed as M39 mounts... do I need some sort of adapter to get this to work on my M8?

 

c) any tips or suggestions what to look for (besides the usuals) when buying an J8?

 

They all seem to be coming from Russian sellers which is always a little worrisome for me...

 

Thanks!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[zombii]

I would suggest that you PM Brian Sweeney about Jupiter lenses. He has rebuilt quite a few J-3's and he knows Jupiters about as well as anybody on here. He may even have one he will sell you that's already been overhauled. I believe he's on this forum as well as RFF. He's a great guy and won't overcharge you.

 

You will need an LTM - M adapter. There are cheap ones on Ebay but Voigtlander type 2's are the best other than Leica's and cheaper and easier to find. You can get them from Cameraquest and used ones show up on RFF and GetDPI occasionally. Cheaper ones are a crap shoot and for your first time out, it's better to get one that you can trust to be the right thickness. You'll need to specify a 50 - 75 version for that lens to bring up the correct frame lines.

 

If you buy a Jupiter from one of the dealers on Ebay, just be forewarned that your chances of getting a good one are not good. Some lenses that come out of Russia are ok but most of the best Jupiters have already been sold.

 

A good alternative that's only a little more is the Nikkor HC 5cm/2. Very well built with a Summicron like rendering. You're more likely to get a good one of these if you buy off of Ebay than one of the Jupiters.

 

Good luck.

Edited August 26, 2011 by zombii