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Printing B&W from M8 Digital Files


daleeman

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I just read an article in Rangefinder Magazine by Stan Sholik called True Black-and-White Digital Prints, (in the Mag not online). It talked about this Fuji Frontier Silver Edition digital printer printing digi files onto B&W paper.

 

I was wondering if anyone has sent any files to any labs that have this digital to true B&W paper printers service and what their erxperiences are with it? I still dip my hands into the soup as often as time permits with real film and paper but I am looking for a great digital to B&W service.

 

Back to Rangefinder Magizine, this January 2010 edition is filled with wonderful images. I fell into a deep trance as I looked at Joseph Hoflehner's Frozen History article about his work in the souther pole area.

 

Would be very honored to have your opinions.

 

Lee

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Lee, I am printing from the M8 and M9 raw files to a dedicated b/w printer. In my case the Epson 1400 with the Cone K6 inkset for this printer, which has smaller droplets than most Epson's.

 

I use both PS actions, per the "Advanced B/W Printing...." book (sorry, don't have the author, but it was recommended here) and Silver Efex Pro, using the Cd-based book by Odell, "The Photog's guide to S.E.Pro."

 

The b/w range is excellent and the Cone inks along with Hahnemuhle photo rag paper offer the first archival prints I have been able to make in 10 years of this camera-equals-computer crap.

 

They look just as good as anything I ever did in the darkroom (a recommendation that you can only *wonder* at). :)

 

There was also an article a few years ago about making internegatives from a digital negative. Those negs can be printed to wet b/w prints. This struck me as having 2 problems.

 

1. Now you're back in the darkroom again both to process this negative, and to process prints, and

2. You've still got a computer process to deal with the digital image.

 

I always found mixing digital and analog together was a drag. In my case, that meant scanning 35mm negs and processing the digital image. Either all-digital or all-analog avoids a lot of problems.

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I use both PS actions, per the "Advanced B/W Printing...." book (sorry, don't have the author

 

John Beardsworth? (Advanced Digital Black and White Photography)

 

Another good book...B&W Printing (A Lark Digital Masters book) by George DeWolfe (just ignore the parts promoting his software)

 

To the OP...a search on the Post Processing forum will reveal other threads where Bill and I share thoughts on variations of the Cone/Epson connection. Highly recommended (from this former long-time darkroom person).

 

Jeff

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Guys,

This is all very enlightening. My community darkroom is becoming more and more neglected and yet I'm one of the few that keeps supporting it. Had the picket thingie come off in my hand while processing the last time, a little disappointing to the art center's staff but it needed replacing.

 

Darkroom work is very rewarding. I'm much better at exposure and film development than I am with printing so I hope to transfer those skills over to using the M8. After clearing the M8 $$ hurdle, the in house printing of B&W from digital files will wait and that is why I am looking for a service to do the paper print.

 

I am very excited to hear you can print on rag type archival paper. I only tolerate RC paper because it is easier to dry, but the fiber papers are where real prints live in my mind.

 

I'll try to look into these books, seems there is some real wisdom there. I have the book on digital negatives for alternative processes and that has been my only cross over of mixed media. Digital and analog doing Cyanotypes and Vandyke Browns. Haven't done any for almost 2 years now and seeing them and my B&W prints hang on my walls is starting to get into my blood. That is why I kicked up this thread.

 

Keep the ideas coming

 

Lee

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I have no experience with this but would also like to learn more. This outfit provides the service Fuji Frontier 370

 

At present, I am very satisfied myself with how far B&W inkjet printing has come. I no longer miss the Silver Gelatins.

 

Thanks for the link. Yes this is the printer I believe I saw in the article. I also found one directly mentioned here:

Fromex Photo & Digital Photo Prints Digital Camera Printing Online

 

I'll have to give these folks a trial set of images. Wish there was something closer to my home.

 

Lee

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What is the approximate cost per print for these solutions when you consider paper, ink, and the cost of the printer depreciated over the course of a few hundred prints?

 

Why calculate printer depreciation over a few hundred prints? My Epson 4880 (bought at a $750 discount) will surely produce many, many thousands. The Cone inks I use come in 8oz bottles, roughly 4x the size of Epson cartridges, for about 2x the cost. And, I get 7 shades of black versus 3 for the Epsons. What is that worth?

 

I buy Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl and Baryta in 50 sheet boxes, or about $1.60 per print.

 

Cone will also print your photos, but that would be far more costly. And, the results I get are getting close to silver prints from my darkroom, the cost of which would have to include a lot more space and equipment investment than my computer installation. And, I'm much more efficient in producing prints than I ever was in a darkroom, despite over 20 years experience.

 

No brainer for me.

 

Jeff

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Well, the Fuji Frontier is actually more of a digital enlarger than a "printer" because it exposes real photo paper with a laser beam. This naturally looks different than putting ink on paper. I am not aware that they have special b&w papers but there are colour papers available in different quality grades. The Fuji Frontier system is used by lots of 1 hour labs. Taking your b&w (and colour) files to be printed there can yield very good results indeed. This may depend on the operator and you might want to tell them to make no corrections so that what you see is waht you get. Many pro labs also have Fuji Frontiers and they may use the better quality paper. The Frontier can expose a format of up to 30x45 cm (12x18).

 

If you want something larger there is the Océ LightJet and some machines from Durst which can expose up to 182x306 cm (72x120) on real photo paper and other cool display materials.

 

I recently had a Leica transparency printed to A0 (80x120 cm - 31,5x47) this way and mounted so that it hangs without glass. It looks quite nice in my living room :-)

 

Having said that I have seen some very good b&w prints on Hahnemühle Photo Rag, but the process may be harde to master than the output on the Fuji Frontier...

 

Michael

------------------------------------------

balimero - photography

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Lee, you don't say in which country you are located. However if this is not applicable to you it may be of interest to others:

 

IlfordLab Sizes and prices are on this page.

 

The prints are on conventional silver gelatine paper and I've been told results are very good although I've never used their service.

 

Bob.

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Lee, you don't say in which country you are located. However if this is not applicable to you it may be of interest to others:

 

IlfordLab Sizes and prices are on this page.

 

The prints are on conventional silver gelatine paper and I've been told results are very good although I've never used their service.

 

Bob.

 

Hi Bob,

I'm in the USA, Dayton Ohio area. There are not a lot of pro labs about his town. Most one hours have older Fuji running in drug stores and such. Have not found one of these Newer Fuji's in out area so I may need to do mail order.

 

I am very envious or having a high end printer at home to do B&W. Tat just sounds like a wonderful thing. Especially printing on rag paper. Cartridge costs have kept me from moving up from a causal printer, but 8 OX of ink in each pod sounds like a true cost savings.

 

Off to go with me granddaughter and son and wife to the Newport Kentucky Aquarium. Never been there. Hope to get something good to shoot.

 

Lee

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A few thoughts - for home printing -

 

for some time I printed on an older Epson printer (1160? 1200?) that gave wonderful blacks, I think they were more pure dye ink. The scans were limited, but the images were great.

 

I now print on the Epson 4000, about 3--4 generations back, and have used an Imageprint RIP to get very neutral B/W prints. The blacks are fair, but the tonality is fantastic, as is the level of control I tried an Epson 2400, but didn't like it - the cartridges too small, the BW interface a bit dodgy. Not bad, but not the "all in one" answer one looks for.

 

Took the Cone workshop for a week, and it was fantastic. All I can say is with good control and Piezography, these guys (and you, set up that way) can get prints that are better than darkroom I could ever print, and while a bit digital, are closer to platinum prints than I thought I would ever see.

 

My reluctance to go down that path is

 

1) dedicating a printer to BW only

2) with any aftermarket inks, there is always the issue of clogging, and I use my printers sporadically, which is the worst thing for printers.

 

A friend showed me a new smaller HP that gave amazing blacks using just 3 BW cartridges, up to 17" wide prints. I was blown away, but he was printing on glossy paper, and that's not quite my look. But worth exploring.

 

The advantage of digital printing is not only the control (and easy repetition), but the ability to work dry, in daylight, and around other tasks. The time frame is (once all in) maybe not so much shorter, but an 80% print is pretty fast. The last 20% still takes real work.

 

The disadvantage is that it doesn't quite have the luster/depth of silver paper, but its closer now than ever. Also, the control I can get in my digital prints is something that would take lots of dedicated time to get in a darkroom - and that, friends, is getting harder to find these days.

 

Geoff

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I have tried many inkjet printers and they have produced some excellent color prints. After many attempts, I can get an acceptable b&w print on my Epson 3800 using ABW settings in the printer driver. I had the M8 and upgraded to the M9 about 4 months ago.

 

I went to Photo Plus this past fall and found a new company called Digital Silver Imaging. They were next to Nik Software and were showing prints on Ilford Silver papers (RC and Fiber) they they were printing on a Durst laser photo printer. The results were stunning, so I stopped to speak with them. They showed me the files from the Nik Silver Efex Pro software that they have been using and showed me how easy it was to work with this Photoshop plug-in. They explained how it works, but frankly, I cannot remember everything they said. Suffice it to say, they are exposing the digital files with light onto the paper and then processing them in b&w chemicals. They were handing out coupons, so I thought I'd give them a try.

 

I sent them my first files in early December. They use a very easy file upload system called you send it and I had no trouble sending them files and setting up an account. My prints came back in a reasonable period of time and they were packaged very carefully. I was so excited to open my package! The prints were outstanding. I especially liked my fiber print. The tones were rich and gorgeous and they had no color cast. I have since purchased the Nik Silver Efex pro software (the owner at Digital SIlver Imaging gave me a great price!) and have uploaded my second order.

 

I am happy to outsource my work. It allows me more shooting time and I don't have to struggle with another electronic device!

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I have tried many inkjet printers and they have produced some excellent color prints. After many attempts, I can get an acceptable b&w print on my Epson 3800 using ABW settings in the printer driver. I had the M8 and upgraded to the M9 about 4 months ago.

 

I went to Photo Plus this past fall and found a new company called Digital Silver Imaging. They were next to Nik Software and were showing prints on Ilford Silver papers (RC and Fiber) they they were printing on a Durst laser photo printer. The results were stunning, so I stopped to speak with them. They showed me the files from the Nik Silver Efex Pro software that they have been using and showed me how easy it was to work with this Photoshop plug-in. They explained how it works, but frankly, I cannot remember everything they said. Suffice it to say, they are exposing the digital files with light onto the paper and then processing them in b&w chemicals. They were handing out coupons, so I thought I'd give them a try.

 

I sent them my first files in early December. They use a very easy file upload system called you send it and I had no trouble sending them files and setting up an account. My prints came back in a reasonable period of time and they were packaged very carefully. I was so excited to open my package! The prints were outstanding. I especially liked my fiber print. The tones were rich and gorgeous and they had no color cast. I have since purchased the Nik Silver Efex pro software (the owner at Digital SIlver Imaging gave me a great price!) and have uploaded my second order.

 

I am happy to outsource my work. It allows me more shooting time and I don't have to struggle with another electronic device!

 

Hay these folks look great. Read the bio on the president / owner and it appears he really knows a lot about B&W. Really have to give these folks a try.

 

Eric wrote me back so I'll post here part of his reply. Not endorsing them, but found his prompt reply a great thing.

 

"We are one of the only labs in North America that is strictly dedicated to B&W silver gelatin printing from your digital files. We take great pride in providing a high quality product at an affordable price.

 

We are using a Durst photographic laser enlarger that exposes Ilford silver gelatin paper (on rolls). The RGB file is printed with light and then fed into a black and white chemical processor with traditional photo chemicals. The results are true silver gelatin prints on either RC or fiber papers that are free of any unwanted tones and surface imperfections.

 

I hope you'll visit our website to see our pricing and try our services.

 

Regards,

 

Eric Luden - Owner

Digital Silver Imaging

11 Brighton St

Belmont, MA 02478

(617) 489-0035

eric@digitalsilverimaging.com

Digital Silver Imaging - Museum-quality black and white prints made from digital files

"

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