h00ligan Posted January 25, 2010 Share #41 Posted January 25, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for the input. Perhaps I should outline the things I haven't liked with the three cameras so far. So the experts here can help guide me. The d'lux 4 was too much of a sacrifice at high iso and depth of field control. Canon t1i was too big and not sharp / autofocus issues. Not slow auto focus. Wrong autofocus. When considering returning it for another to see if it was specific to The one I bought. It dawned on me that it's just too large for what I want ( take everywhere). The reason I picked up the gf1 was the wait on the x1 coupled with the fact I found it used at a good price. I knew if I didn't like it for whatever reason I wouldn't lose any money on it. So why not try it? Also gave me a reason to take a short but lovely road trip. The gf1 is pretty good. Two complaints I have are, higher iso performance negates the advantage of the aperture, the weird bug that causes a shutter speed of 1/30 when auto iso is used. One smaller quibble is the shutter volume. So. Back to the x1 in consideration. Go anywhere camera with apparently / presumably a great lens that has a DSLR sized sensor and performs well at high iso. I never bought adigilux 2 as at the prices I've been seeing. I'd rather put that money into the x1. I get that I seem indecisive and am sorry if that's annoying folks here. I agree that a good photographer can get a great capture with lesser tools. That said. If I'm putting the money and time commitment into this why not try a few cams. A driver can get anywhere in a given car. But people test drive. For now I'll stop posting about it until I reach a decision. Thanks for your patience and assistance. Sorry for any typos I missed as I'm on the iPhone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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jsrockit Posted January 25, 2010 Share #42 Posted January 25, 2010 Based on the aforementioned, I think you're on the right track...until loving the X1 turns into "needing" a M9! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelb Posted January 25, 2010 Share #43 Posted January 25, 2010 I get that I seem indecisive and am sorry if that's annoying folks here. No its not annoying, you have a common problem. Just remember that there is no such thing as the perfect camera. If there was the Perfecto Noproblematico-1 would be the only camera in existence. Yes the D-Lux4 has a few foibles but it takes pictures I am proud of. It handles well, is unobtrusive in use - I can tuck it under my jacket even with grip and viewfinder, It can be a little noisy so I don't use it over ISO400 and it is not an issue to me. I can't get really shallow DOF, but I hate bokeh just for the sake of it so it is not an issue to me. I love the B&W handling and the 1:1 format so to me its a great little camera and it is now always with me (except in bed). OK Digilux 2 - now there is a camera with a list of flaws. Crummy viewfinder, noisy over ISO200, slow operation in raw, only 5MP???. But for me the sublime images, its wonderful lens and superb manual operation and control layout negate these flaws - just work around them. I am so happy with this camera we are getting married next month. Thing is, most problems can be worked around. If your GF-1 has a problem that causes a shutter speed of 1/30 when auto ISO is used, then don't use auto ISO (don't know why you'd want to anyway). Hope you find what you're looking for but don't stop posting here for the time being, we'd certainly miss you. Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stkorn Posted January 25, 2010 Share #44 Posted January 25, 2010 The gf1 is pretty good. Two complaints I have are, higher iso performance negates the advantage of the aperture, the weird bug that causes a shutter speed of 1/30 when auto iso is used. I haven't used a GF-1 but I do have an EP-2 which uses the same sensor and I find this comment odd. ISO 800 is very clean and ISO1600 is also quite good provided you expose the shot properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted January 25, 2010 Share #45 Posted January 25, 2010 Based on the aforementioned, I think you're on the right track...until loving the X1 turns into "needing" a M9! From what he described, he seems to me the guy of an surely autofocus camera. Basically his decision tree is somewhere between the GF1 and the X1. The GF1 he tried and found out some "small" bugs which I believe you can work around them, but anyway. Now you want to try that X1. Ok, do it, but you do lose cash. Remember these are just tools for you to take pics, not to buy even more tools, and also that there is no "Perfect Camera" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 25, 2010 Share #46 Posted January 25, 2010 Based on the aforementioned, I think you're on the right track...until loving the X1 turns into "needing" a M9! I would have a very very hard time prioritizing a minimum of 10k for camera gear - especially if it wasn't built up over time so it will have to stop short of an m9! Just remember that there is no such thing as the perfect camera. Yes the D-Lux4 has a few foibles but it takes pictures I am proud of. Thing is, most problems can be worked around. If your GF-1 has a problem that causes a shutter speed of 1/30 when auto ISO is used, then don't use auto ISO (don't know why you'd want to anyway). Hope you find what you're looking for but don't stop posting here for the time being, we'd certainly miss you. Nigel I hear you on the dl4 - i absolutely think it is the finest PAS out there, I just want more than a PAS, and at a $700 point of entry, it's not the right one for me. Money no object I would absolutely keep that as a pocket cam. I use auto iso on the gf-1 sometimes to try and get it below 800 indoors - explanation below. Thank you also for the kind words. I haven't used a GF-1 but I do have an EP-2 which uses the same sensor and I find this comment odd. ISO 800 is very clean and ISO1600 is also quite good provided you expose the shot properly. Yes, but the gf-1 is conservative on iso - if you read reviews it runs 25%+ conservative on iso, so there's a decent difference - since I can't select iso 600, my 800 is really a 1000 iso. Second to that is that as nice as the lens is, there's no IS at all, which means that shooting at iso 800 indoors - the shutter speed needs to be roughly 1/15 to make a good exposure - not great for candid shots handheld indoors. - 1600 on the gf1 is more like 200 - and to my taste is unusable unless shooting b/w. Not sure if I mentioned I have a slight genetic tremor - so handholding 1/15 with no IS won't work out well for me - have to bump the iso rather than have a blurry shot. From what he described, he seems to me the guy of an surely autofocus camera. Basically his decision tree is somewhere between the GF1 and the X1. I sort of agree about that - but on cameras with LCD. I would be fine with manual focus on a cam with a viewfinder that indicates actual focus... so if I keep the gf-1, i'll have to get the evf (rated poorly) as I find lcd manual focus extremely hit or miss (yes, probably likely my inexperience). For an example tonight I took some higher iso shots, just nothing shots - pets around the house, my girlfriend.. at higher iso - I'll examine the results in the morning and may have a more clear view on the GF-1. I appreciate the feedback gents (and ladies potentially) and again thank you for your patience. I will try to keep my posts down here as you all have much more important things to discuss regarding photography - not newbie indecisiveness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted January 25, 2010 Share #47 Posted January 25, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Why use the manual focus on a camera that AF works fine??? Why waste even more for another electronic gizmo (EVF) to bypass AF that works already an for free?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 25, 2010 Share #48 Posted January 25, 2010 I'd use manual focus on the GF-1 or E-P series as well... not because I'm quicker with it, but because I'm a geek that likes the old school way of working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted January 25, 2010 Share #49 Posted January 25, 2010 Well fine, but... it is not meant to work this way, but the AF way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted January 25, 2010 Share #50 Posted January 25, 2010 Well fine, but... it is not meant to work this way, but the AF way. Wow really? I wonder why Panasonic and Olympus u4/3 lenses have a manual focus mode with a manual focus ring on the lens then... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted January 25, 2010 Share #51 Posted January 25, 2010 Why use the manual focus on a camera that AF works fine???Why waste even more for another electronic gizmo (EVF) to bypass AF that works already an for free?? Yes, I should have phrased that better - I should have said, should I choose to use manual focus, I'd have to get the evf. I haven't found a reason to manual focus with the gf-1 + 20mm combo, yet - as opposed to the 2 canons I've used, both of which blew focus badly on several occasions. I'm actually quite impressed with the gf-1 af, not just the speed, but the consistency. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted January 25, 2010 Share #52 Posted January 25, 2010 Wow really? I wonder why Panasonic and Olympus u4/3 lenses have a manual focus mode with a manual focus ring on the lens then... They have it, in case the motor breaks obviously ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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