M9, m8, lr2.6, lr3β & b&w

[spylaw4]

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I usually shoot DNG + jpeg fine B&W.

 

With the M8, B&W in-camera jpeg results were extremely good, needing little work in either version of LR for an excellent result.

 

The M9 (or maybe it's just me?) has not yet achieved that level of quality in either 2.6 or 3β - especially 3β

 

The M9 B&W results imported into LR2.6 particularly from my recent Cape Town trip are just about ok, but need a lot more work. The B&W results imported into LR3β from the same files are frankly appalling - soot and whitewash would be an accurate description! Neither B&W import uses any profile.

 

So this thread asks

a) has anyone else had similar problems?

any B&W settings suggestion either for the M9 or on LR3β import?

c) if Leica could get it sorted in the next firmware update, please.

d) could Adobe look into it, please?

 

Hope all the above explains my problem clearly. It's frustrating!

[jaapv]

Just the opposite, Brian. After a short period I find the M9 files need less work than the M8 ones. My workflow is C1, 5.0 using one of the B&W profiles, export to CS4 and do levels and curves; that's it. I used to need something like Alien Skin for the M8 after getting the colour version correct, which was more of a hassle.

 

You'll find an example here:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/landscape-travel/112804-low-sun.html

[spylaw4]

Excellent example Jaap - except that I don't have/use C1 or CS4. Just LR.

[noah_addis]

I haven't noticed much real difference between the in-camera B&W jpegs of the M8 vs. the M9.

 

Having said that, I only use the jpegs for editing and not for printing.

 

I use C1 and photoshop, and have found that the M9 files require less work (by quite a small margin) than the M8 files did. Both cameras, in my experience, produce files that need very little post processing for B&W or color.

 

I tried LR and wasn't impressed, so I can't speak much to its performance with M8 vs. M9 files. I'm sure someone more familiar with LR can be of assistance. It does sound like something may be off in your workflow, maybe a wrong profile or something, since by most accounts the M9 files are as good or better out of the camera than the M8 files (which were already very good!).

[horosu]

My B&W workflow has changed profoundly since I discovered Raw Photo Processor (MacOSX only).

 

Its conversion algorithm is just fantastic, it literally leaves Silver Efex Pro in the dust. It is donationware, and for people buying it, there is a plugin that makes import to and from Lightroom a breeze.

 

I use only this software now for RAW conversion, keeping Lightroom for DAM.

[jaapv]

Excellent example Jaap - except that I don't have/use C1 or CS4. Just LR.

I downloaded the original beta and deleted it, tried it again when I got the M9 deleted it again. Doesn't work for me. I guess I have the wrong type of mind...

[adan]

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Short answers:

 

a) sort of - mostly fixed once I realized that the M9 really is a "new" camera and not an M8 with a bigger sensor. Needs its own workflow settings.

see below - but yes for dngs

c) Many things on Leica's to-do list. Personally, I agree the tone mapping defaults need to revert to something closer to the M8. I'm sure Leica had their reasons for the changes, but I think they need reconsideration.

d) Not really an Adobe problem, and if Adobe starts making changes at the same time Leica is making other changes, things could REALLY get confused. For predictable results, change ONE variable at a time.

 

The longer answers:

 

First - are we talking jpegs or dngs?

 

Guy Mancuso in his M9 comments noted that Leica seems to have set the black clipping point higher in the M9 than in the M8, which would account for the "soot" in jpegs - and in dngs unless one sets one's own default for "Blacks" rather than using Adobe's "auto". (I use ACR 2.6, but it is the same processing engine as LightRoom 2.6, I believe.)

 

Sorry I can't find a link just now, but I'd say Guy seems to be right.

 

The black clipping is something Leica could change in firmware. Your using a different "contrast" setting for jpegs might also improve this. Your playing around with the default settings in LR for dngs may also improve this - set the "Blacks" slider to default to "0" and "Fill light" to "10" or so and see where that gets you, as a starting place.

 

Whether Leica WILL change this in a FW upgrade probably depends on user reaction - presumably they though it was an improvement in the first place. Or it may have been a technique to hide shadow noise.

 

Personally, in ACR 5.6, for dngs, I use the histogram to set the shadows, so that the left-most edge of the histogram just barely starts to form a vertical "wall" about 15-20% of the available height of the graph. (see below)

 

The exact shadow setting needed to achieve this depends on how flat the lighting was on the subject. Optionally, one can hold down the option key while adjusting the "Blacks" slider and watch the clipping threshold in the actual image.

 

I would say that Leica "reset" a lot of things in the M9 compared to the M8. The LCD is darker and has more contrast (probably a combination of reducing battery drain and trying to improve daylight visibility) - try to get an image to look the same on the M9 LCD as on the M8 LCD through exposure and you'll almost certainly end up with blown highlights.

 

The M9 mapping for highlights itself probably needs tweaking, as I discovered in my "rainbow skies" thread of a couple of months ago. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/107297-rainbow-skies.html

 

There just still seems to be an imbalance in the color channels' clip points that leads to totally unrecoverable highlights just a little faster than with the M8 - although the difference in LCD brightness/contrast probably contributes to this by fooling people (well, at least me, originally) into overexposing in the first place.

 

Finally - here are some B&W images from the M9 (dng originals) done recently, with my newest settings for M9 images. The first image in the series corresponds to the ACR settings shown in the sample below.

 

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