theendlesshouse Posted January 17, 2010 Share #41 Posted January 17, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) have the sensor wet cleaned by a dealer if the place that sold it you does it get it done by them under warranty, if not pay elsewhere. It seems like a dust issue and home cleaning is not ideal when trying to identify potential sensor issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 Hi theendlesshouse, Take a look here Please tell me this is dust.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
thrice Posted January 17, 2010 Share #42 Posted January 17, 2010 Is it the lens? Try look at the lens. Jerry Due to diffraction there is no way it could be the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppolla Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share #43 Posted January 17, 2010 I checked the lens and cleaned it also...but at f2 you see nothing while at f16 you see the spots. Do you think if I bring to authorized Leica repair centre they would do this under warranty? P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted January 17, 2010 Share #44 Posted January 17, 2010 I have now performed the wet method two times...and no visible results...Here is what I get now...a photo of cloudy skies at f16. Still countless dots... I think tomorrow I am going to see Leica here in NL... As I stated very early in the thread that there is a probability that it is oil, grease or lubricant (which by the way gentlemen, DOES NOT blow out through the use of a Rocket Blower or any such device). ppolla, you state that you used a wet formula you bought from Visible Dust. Which one? VisibleDust Introducing - Sensor Cleaning solutions for Digital Cameras - D-SLR Sensor Cleaning. They make three for the sensor alone and it is printed on the bottle. That being said, the one you should be using is Smear Away. VisibleDust - Product Page How do I know? First I use surgical loops and a fiber-optic light source from my former profession. I can see everything when cleaning the sensor. Last time I cleaned the sensor on my M8, I saw a small piece of particulate matter that I wiped with my Arctic Butterfly. It smeared! What seemed to be a solid turned out to be a globule of oil which fooled me due to the way the light was refracting off of it. It then left an oil slick maybe half a mm long (which looked like it was a foot long under my loops). It reflected the desaturated colors of the rainbow just like you see oil slicks in the streets on a rainy day. It took two attempts with the Smear Away, but it was gone. The second point I want to make is, who are these experts that everyone refers to that clean sensors in the back of camera shops that are mentioned in all the countless "Cleaning Sensor" threads on this Forum that are exactly like this one?? Do they pass a certification program from which they can promptly display a certificate on their wall? Or is there the possibility that they are kids attending high school (remember we never see them) that the manager gave a 20 minute demonstration to during lunch time while he was shoving down his Big Mac and Fries? Anyway, I'll tell you what I tell everyone that hands over there IRA and hard earned retirement accounts to so called experts (as they watch their assets depreciate at an exponential rate). No one loves your money like you do! In other words, no one cares about your camera sensor like you do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
theendlesshouse Posted January 17, 2010 Share #45 Posted January 17, 2010 The second point I want to make is, who are these experts that everyone refers to that clean sensors in the back of camera shops that are mentioned in all the countless "Cleaning Sensor" threads on this Forum that are exactly like this one?? Do they pass a certification program from which they can promptly display a certificate on their wall? Or is there the possibility that they are kids attending high school (remember we never see them) that the manager gave a 20 minute demonstration to during lunch time while he was shoving down his Big Mac and Fries? : They clean many sensors perhaps? Thereby gaining a lot of experience in doing so. Also, if an authorized dealer, the responsibility for any damage if anything goes wrong is theirs. It's the sensor of a £5000 camera, the principal component for recording information from the lens, surely it warrants due care and attention. It is not a complicated thing at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppolla Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share #46 Posted January 17, 2010 Thanks William. I am bringing it to authorized Leica repair center...I would not bring to the shop I bought it at. To the question about what solution I use...it is visible dust DSRL sensor cleaning formula...Sensor clean. My dealer never told me another solution existed... P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted January 17, 2010 Share #47 Posted January 17, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) They clean many sensors perhaps? Thereby gaining a lot of experience in doing so. Also, if an authorized dealer, the responsibility for any damage if anything goes wrong is theirs. It's the sensor of a £5000 camera, the principal component for recording information from the lens, surely it warrants due care and attention. Faith is a beautiful thing. It then becomes a matter of he said/she said in the eyes of the law. It is not a complicated thing at all. Exactly my point! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted January 17, 2010 Share #48 Posted January 17, 2010 My M8 is my third digital camera. My first, and absolutely worst regarding sensor dust was my ex. Canon 1Ds. Slightly worse than my ex 1Ds II. Why this was so, I don't know. But both cameras were difficult to sensor clean since the sensor fills the whole space within the 'camera box'. I now have a 1Ds III with the 'ultrasonic' dust removal system. It represents a major breakthrough on 'the dust problem'. With the 1Ds III, dust is hardly a problem at all. Which is a reason to why I use it more and more compared to my M8. Leica must, as soon as possible, come up with a dust removal system similar Canon's 'ultrasonic' system. Pro photographers don't have the time to spend on risky self cleaning any more. My system on dust removal is as follows: 1) I check the sensor by shooting a white sky with a small aperture and check for dust on the Lcd. If I can't see any, I regard the camera as being good. 2) I do only use a rubber blower myself. I never touch the sensor with anything. Nor use any fluids (Any alcohol in my house is for drinking only!). By this, I stick to the recommendations set by Canon in their user manuals. Most dust is removed, or at least moved around, with a blower. Some dust spots are impossible to remove with a blower. I have seen no difference in this tendency on my M8 than on any of my Canon cameras. I can not document that my M8 has any more difficult spots than, say, my Canon 1Ds. Rather on the contrary. Dust on the M8 is also easier to blow outside the sensor, since the M8 sensor does not cover the whole back wall of the 'camera box'. 3) I deliver my digital cameras for regular sensor cleaning to pro workshops. The Norwegian Leica importer runs a 'car wash program'. Every tenth cleaning is free. They (Interfoto) have far better cleaning equipment than any amateur I know of. My soon two years old 1Ds III have not been cleaned yet. but might be up for a cleaning later this year. My M8 has seen about three pro cleanings per year I have had it. The worst period of the year regarding 'fixed spots' that is 'impossible' to remove with a rubber blower is 'late spring/early summer', here in Norway. A time when the landscape is drenched in pollen. So, I am sceptical to any theories that it should be lubricants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted January 17, 2010 Share #49 Posted January 17, 2010 I like some of the Visible Dust products. I use their Arctic Butterfly brush, their swabs (Orange are gentler than Green), Sensor corner swabs (good for the M9, where the corners are more difficult to get clean than the smaller sensor on the M8) and sensor loupe. However, I have found their cleaning fluids to be very unsuited to the M sensors. They don't seem to lift the lube spots and tend to leave smears. Also millilitre for millilitre, they are about 10 times the price of E2. Warning on E2 when travelling by air - USA TSA staff don't like it and may well empty a bottle left in your checked luggage - this has happened to me and a number of other folks. I now fill a small Visible Dust bottle with E2 and that seems to go through without a problem. A eye-drops bottle would be another good possibility. If you have a very oil spotted sensor, if you gently wiggle the sensor on the first stroke only but not on the reverse stroke, this seems to help get off those pesky spots. Usually even with this technique, you will need at least two cleans. Don't be disappointed if the first clean still leaves spots. I have to admit, after the recent series of IR filter breakages, to being a touch nervous about wet cleaning my M9 but so far so good. Wilson This is exactly what I believe about them as well Wilson, but I refuse to try another fluid, until I finish the one I bought from Visible dust. Then I will switch to using the platinum kit suggested by Leica. My plastic loupe from visible sucks. It is 7x already but mine came in a very bad condition, and I can't afford to lose a single sec more of my time with it. I will simply forget Arctic and switch to another vendor. I'm not gonna play their Guinea pig. My ultimate solution for sensor now is a good hand torch from led lenser (uses cree leds and have front lens for focusing) (LED LENSER - Professionelle, fokussierbare LED-Taschenlampen / Flashlights von Zweibrueder Optoelectronics GmbH) maybe my eyes or a 2x-3x big magnifying glass but good quality and dust aid platinum or other wet solution using eclipse. That will lift inefficiencies caused by Arctic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted January 17, 2010 Share #50 Posted January 17, 2010 By the way don't expect some clerk in a shop to care for your camera, as Palank said already: you are the most appropriate to run a thorough and careful sensor clean, and the more times you do it the cleaner your sensor dark room will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 17, 2010 Share #51 Posted January 17, 2010 My plastic loupe from visible sucks. It is 7x already but mine came in a very bad condition, and I can't afford to lose a single sec more of my time with it. I will simply forget Arctic and switch to another vendor. I'm not gonna play their Guinea pig It sounds as if you were sold a faulty unit. As I said earlier, the LEDs and lens in mine are certainly bright enough to allow the dust to be seen very easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted January 17, 2010 Share #52 Posted January 17, 2010 It sounds as if you were sold a faulty unit. As I said earlier, the LEDs and lens in mine are certainly bright enough to allow the dust to be seen very easily. Absolutely. But what can I do? The costs doesn't justify exporting it to USA and back It will probably end up in the bin. But then again, when I used the strong light, I saw residues from both the Arctic butterfly and the swabs. I tried a lot to remove the film residues from using the swabs, but for this if I remember I had to use my finger and a microfiber cloth If ppolla could see that he would probably had a couple of heart attacks... If I see anything like it again, I will throw Arctic from the window Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppolla Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share #53 Posted January 17, 2010 Absolutely. But what can I do? The costs doesn't justify exporting it to USA and back It will probably end up in the bin.But then again, when I used the strong light, I saw residues from both the Arctic butterfly and the swabs. I tried a lot to remove the film residues from using the swabs, but for this if I remember I had to use my finger and a microfiber cloth If ppolla could see that he would probably had a couple of heart attacks... If I see anything like it again, I will throw Arctic from the window After a few wet cleans, I am not scared anymore to do this....sounds like I was also sold the wrong solution... I will keep it as visible dust "claims" that using this solution repels dust!!! Now, maybe I need a few more bottles of that for my house, and I can save on the cleaner! I hope my M9 gets some pro care tomorrow...and then I will order the other solution that is meant for cleaning the oil residues, plus the tables that will help clean my Arctic thingie... P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 17, 2010 Share #54 Posted January 17, 2010 That solution is called Eclipse2....I never use that Arctic Butterfly any more - my dogs chewed it anyway. A blower suffices - but the trick is to hold the camera upside down, so the dust falls out instead of onto the sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted January 18, 2010 Share #55 Posted January 18, 2010 That solution is called Eclipse2....I never use that Arctic Butterfly any more - my dogs chewed it anyway. A blower suffices - but the trick is to hold the camera upside down, so the dust falls out instead of onto the sensor. Jaap... Just how much camera equipment have your dogs been implicated in destroying?... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjjuin Posted January 18, 2010 Share #56 Posted January 18, 2010 it might be a balloon flying in the sky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted January 18, 2010 Share #57 Posted January 18, 2010 By the way, please note that, the dust aid solution has nothing to do in resemblance with swabs, solutions and brushes. Its greatest benefit is that you don't have to drag anything on the sensor glass, therefore there is no risk of scratching either. So, for dry cleaning, this will always be superior way of cleaning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scc Posted January 18, 2010 Share #58 Posted January 18, 2010 Absolutely. But what can I do? The costs doesn't justify exporting it to USA and back It will probably end up in the bin.But then again, when I used the strong light, I saw residues from both the Arctic butterfly and the swabs. I tried a lot to remove the film residues from using the swabs, but for this if I remember I had to use my finger and a microfiber cloth If ppolla could see that he would probably had a couple of heart attacks... If I see anything like it again, I will throw Arctic from the window I would at least contact visible dust and let them know the problems you are having, send them a couple of photos, and explain that it is not cost effective to return in to the USA. They may be surprisingly helpful. Also, residues from the Arctic Butterfly seem unlikely, unless your brush was contaminated, or you smeared whatever was on your sensor around with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2010 Share #59 Posted January 18, 2010 Jaap... Just how much camera equipment have your dogs been implicated in destroying?...One M8 by going between my legs and causing me to drop it, one lenscap and the Arctic Butterfly. Not too bad... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted January 18, 2010 Share #60 Posted January 18, 2010 I would at least contact visible dust and let them know the problems you are having, send them a couple of photos, and explain that it is not cost effective to return in to the USA. They may be surprisingly helpful. Also, residues from the Arctic Butterfly seem unlikely, unless your brush was contaminated, or you smeared whatever was on your sensor around with it. Yes mate, I agree here. However I don't have the time or will to investigate or help a merchant/producer troubleshoot his products. Merchant's side I agree, he will get a direct benefit out of it, but my side it is purely a waste of time. The problem with their products is very fundamental: one has to DRAG them along a glass surface. When you drag something onto a surface, then you risk scratches, smears and whatever else. And this will never change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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