Need Advice- focusing

[tdtaylor]

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I tested my M9 and my lenses for focus, and I seem to have consistent front focusing:

 

35 lux: f1.4 front focus by 1"

35 lux: f2.0 on

35 lux: f2.8 back focus by 3/4"

 

50 cron (VI): front focus by 1"

 

90 cron: front focus by 3/4"

 

90 tele-elmarit: front focus by 1"

 

Of course, the exact distance is hard to determine, but these distances are fairly close, Did not test the 21 or 28. I expected the 35 to behave like this, but how should I interpret the results. I have not been in Rangefinders for a while- is this in tolerance?

 

Any advice and recommendations are greatly appreciated.

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[scc]

Advice - test the 21 and 28. If they are front focussing by an inch or so also, then it looks like your M9 rangefinder needs to be calibrated.

[tdtaylor]

21mm Elmarit appears to be front focusing, but with the field of depth hard to determine the exact distance. The 28 appears to be on target.

 

Now I'm really confused.

[Leicakillen]

I checked my M9 this morning with 35, 50 and 90 mm lenses. Same result - the true focus point is about 5 cm closer to the camera compared to the point I have focused. I have returned the body to my dealer Wibergs Foto here in Stockholm and I expect to get the M9 back within 3 weeks. The dealer told me this was the second customer of his with this problem. Strange and annoying that these problems occur in spite of rigorous quality control in Solms.

Without the camera I will spend some time trying to learn more of Lightroom - a clear step ahead compared to Ph.

 

Regards

/Anders

[Stef63]

Same here (but backfocus) on all lenses of approx 1". M9 is in Solms and currently has the status "In Repair".

 

I'm using the 1DsMkIII again, but miss the little M

[tdtaylor]

Have an email into Leica NJ. Curious what their response will be. Guess I've gotten use to Canon and Nikon, where often the first option is I am at fault.

 

Anyone have an idea how fast Leica NJ can turn a repair around?

 

Thanks,

[JeffreyTotaro]

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I got a time estimate of at least 6 weeks from Leica NJ, and that was with emphasis on AT LEAST. I sent my M9 and 2 lenses to DAG yesterday. I know theres a cost difference but the turn around will be much faster.

[tdtaylor]

Did 2 sets of very controlled test tonight, and every lens is 3cm (1.2 inches) front focusing wide open at 1 meter. Waiting on a response from Leica NJ on how to proceed. Not a real happy camper in having to deal with this on a new $7k camera . Hopefully Nikon will come through.

[jaapv]

I don't know about the USA, but Solms is managing a fairly consistent 5 days turnaround for this kind of after-sales service for M9 cameras.

[tdtaylor]

Jaap,

 

I can only hope the same holds true for Leica NJ- Mail can have it there in one day, since it is near to where I live.

[ballyscanlon]

Jaap,

 

I can only hope the same holds true for Leica NJ- Mail can have it there in one day, since it is near to where I live.

 

i sent my summilux into Leica NJ for cleaning and 6bit upgrade in october and was told it would take 6 weeks. as i still didnt have my M9 yet i didnt care. called them after 8 weeks and they said 'MAYBE it might be done before christmas'.

 

if you send something into them, i would press for a 'no BS delivery estimate', and then hope they're right.

[Makten]

I35 lux: f1.4 front focus by 1"

35 lux: f2.0 on

35 lux: f2.8 back focus by 3/4"

This is obviously not due to RF miscalibration, but because of focus shift. If you calibrate the RF (or lens) to focus accurately at f/1.4, it will be even more off (back focusing) when stopped down. That's unfortunately a property of the lens, and my suspicion is that Leica calibrates their RF:s for slight front focus, because many lenses DO shift focus when stopped down.

My M8 does the same with every lens I've tried so far, which means that focus is fine at f/2.8 or so. I've also recalibrated the RF myself when I used a CV 35/1.4 Nokton, which is a notorious focus shifter. The results were great at f/1.4, but terrible stopped down. The Summilux isn't as bad, but unfortunately not perfect.

 

So, you need to know if you want the RF to be correct at f/1.4 or a bit stopped down for this particular lens. Slower lenses generally gives less problem, due to larger DOF and also because they are less likely to shift focus when stopping down. There's unfortunately no way that Leica could make all of your lenses focus perfectly at every aperture stop.

[Guest mc_k]

...my suspicion is that Leica calibrates their RF:s for slight front focus, because many lenses DO shift focus when stopped down...

 

Why the suspicion? This would make a lens less usable wide open. Apparently they have offset particular lenses upon request.

[Makten]

Why the suspicion? This would make a lens less usable wide open. Apparently they have offset particular lenses upon request.

Yes, but it would also make a lens more usable when stopped down. The question for Leica is: Do people use their lenses mostly wide open or stopped down?

 

You could of course calibrate one particular lens to focus properly stopped down or wide open, without changing the RF calibration. But you can never get rid of the focus shift of a given lens and its optical formula. So, either it will focus perfectly wide open or stopped down, if it IS a lens that shifts focus; and many apparently do so.

 

Interestingly enough, SLR:s have similar problems, even when focusing manually. The focusing screens don't allow light to get through it for all aperture stops, because of altering angles of the infalling light. What you see in a modern SLR viewfinder is approximately what the lens "sees" at f/2.8-4. So if you have a fast lens that shifts focus upon stopping down, focus will be off in the viewfinder when it is wide open.

 

Older SLR:s, or a new one with a matte screen made for manual focus, will have the opposite problem. Focus is dead on at f/1.4-2, but off at f/2.8 or more stopped down; again IF you use lenses that shifts focus.

 

----------------------

 

Edit: So, my suspicion is that Leica calibrates the rangefinder to match the optical properties of as many lenses as possible, which must be a compromize. They all behave differently.

[tdtaylor]

I have tested and retested all 6 lenses, and every one is consistently front focusing 3cm, plus or minus a fraction of a cm between lenses. The 35mm is off 3cm at f1.4, and very slightly front focuses at 2.0 and very slightly back focuses at 2.8. Of course this is understandable, and the focus shift is very well known with this lens. After this gets straightened out, I may have the proper focusing set to a specific f stop- but first things first.

 

So now it is packed up and ready to head to Allentown, NJ. I spoke to Amy Kosh of Leica (she called after I left an email this weekend), who called me first thing this morning, and told me turn around is about two weeks. What is irritating me at this point is that I have to send the package insured at a cost of about $40 to me. The time, aggravation and cost is getting fairly high for a two week old camera. I replaced the red dot with a black Leica dot- if they don't replace that after adjusting focus, I will really be ......mad :mad:.

[Makten]

I understand your frustration! Just one more thing; you should check the RF alignment at infinity first. If it should turn out to be off for all your lenses, the fix is easy and could be done at home with a hex wrench.

[B&W]

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/111696-front-focusing.html

[jaapv]

I understand your frustration! Just one more thing; you should check the RF alignment at infinity first. If it should turn out to be off for all your lenses, the fix is easy and could be done at home with a hex wrench.

No it cannot! You have a considerable risk of throwing the close-focussing out that way. There are three adjustment points and they are interdependent. If you change one you change the others. Focus adjustment on the body can only be done on an adjustment rig or a series of adjustment targets. The hex wrench method is an emergency adjustment in the field, not a solution.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Makten]

No it cannot! You have a considerable risk of throwing the close-focussing out that way. There are three adjustment points and they are interdependent. If you change one you change the others. Focus adjustment on the body can only be done on an adjustment rig or a series of adjustment targets. The hex wrench method is an emergency adjustment in the field, not a solution.

 

I've tried it myself and it worked fine. If you alter the focus at infinity, you will also alter it at the closer range. That doesn't mean that it will end up perfect at all distances, but if it is off at infinty it is a good indication that the RF is out of alignment, not the lenses.

[tdtaylor]

Update: Already spoke to a service representative for Leica NJ, alerting them that they would receive my camera tomorrow. First response is that they are extremely backed up and it could be a month or two. I am typically fairly polite, but I let a little irritation enter my voice, stating it was not acceptable for a two week old camera and that I had to pay $50 insured shipping for a problem that was not of my making. The service time then reduced to "maybe three weeks." I then noted that that was not acceptable because I was headed on vacation in three weeks. We then got down to "I'll pull it out of receiving and take it up to tech- if it is straightforward, they may be able to fix it tomorrow." There were no promises, but I felt much better after the conversation and believed she would give it a try.

 

I will say she listened (or at least convinced me she cares), was located in New Jersey, and was polite and reasonable to talk to- no script. Over the years, I have dealt with Canon and Nikon, but several times with both brands bad things happened (like lost lenses, sending back lenses with different serial numbers, claiming a D3 was out of warranty when the camera had only been out three months), and when you go off script and utilize call centers that are not employees of the corporation, it can take many calls and many hours to resolve.

 

I have to say, I am a little calmer than I was earlier.