The feeling of the M9 vs the M8u

[tom0511]

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I kept an M8 as backup for my M9 and while I dont have any problem with the crop I now question if it makes sense. For backup yes, but as a second body-allways have to put IR-filters for the M8 and off for the M9. And when would one take images with a M8 if you have a M9?

It was nice to have the M8 when I had to send my M9 to Leica for 2 weeks but other than that it doesnt get much use. I am struggeling with myself if I should not rather sell it.

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[jaapv]

Depends on how one defines back-up. To me it means making a full switch, should the M9 break down, so the crop difference and filters will not be limiting. If you mean second camera in regular use,with lenses that need to be interchanged all the time, then those things become a PITA. So I bought a CV 35 as a dedicated M8 lens, and I have an old Elmar-C 90 as well. Reminds me - I must order an IR filter for it....

[Guest BigSplash]

Jaapv you say that you colour correct 70% of your images with the M8 and now with M9 this is much less. I would like to understand this better.

 

I normally have my M8 set at 5600K when I shoot externally and then quite often batch correct a bunch of images within Lightroom 2.6. When I shoot internally I manually set white balance with a white card or tablecloth and the result is usually perfect. I do not see the need to colour correct 70% of my images (excluding a simple batch corection). I also wonder why the M9 is immune to such colour corrections as the sensor technology is the same.

 

I actually would have believed that the M9 images need correction for magenta cast until suitable presets are available and likewise I understood that there is a need for post production fixing of the vignetting and green line issue (18mm lens) and corner fix....or do you not have this as an issue?

[jaapv]

It is not about colour balance, that is basic RAW conversion stuff.. It is about colour renderng to get the image to look the way I want it to. And I don't use the 18.

[andybarton]

 

I normally have my M8 set at 5600K when I shoot externally and then quite often batch correct a bunch of images within Lightroom 2.6.

 

By setting your camera to a particular colour temperature, you are bound to need to batch correct a bunch, as the chances are that the temperature will be incorrect for most of them.

 

However, if you shoot RAW, this isn't an issue.

[Ecar]

Depends on how one defines back-up. To me it means making a full switch, should the M9 break down, so the crop difference and filters will not be limiting. If you mean second camera in regular use,with lenses that need to be interchanged all the time, then those things become a PITA. So I bought a CV 35 as a dedicated M8 lens, and I have an old Elmar-C 90 as well. Reminds me - I must order an IR filter for it....

For what it's worth, I use a similar approach: wides (below 35mm) are assigned to either the M8 or the M9, so that putting UV/IR filters on and off is not a nuisance anymore. A lens such as the CV 15 is too wide on the M9 for my style anyway. Above 35mm, I haven't found any practical issue in using filtered lenses on the M9 (only once or twice, perhaps, I thought flare could have been attributed to the filter rather than the lens).

I have never had problems quickly adjusting to different crop factors, whether I use DSLRs or rangefinders, even during the same photo session. What I find more difficult is using a DSLR and a rangefinder during the same session - but that's just me (and a different topic anyway...).

[vensar]

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Although- from 35 and longer there is no need to remove the filters for the M9.

 

That's interesting. Let me see if I got this right - you mean on the M9 I can leave the IR filter on the lens for FL 35 and beyond?

 

Vensar

[j_lir]

since my m9 arrived my m8's are on the bench.

come gametime i bring out my m9 and a film m.

i can't deal with the filters anymore, nor the cropped sensor.

 

i thought i would be into it for r work, but the image quality on the m9, well the ISO quality is making it tough to use anything else.

 

now i bring my m7 and my m9 to gig's.

i have the d3 for tele work when its necessary.

 

the m8U and m9 feel exactly the same to me, they're the same body.

 

the m9 is a FAR superior camera however.

no comparison.

it's what the M8, or digital M should have been in hte first place.

 

the panda's pending but who knows at this point.

 

so my advice, sell it all and grab a couple of M9's and rock out!

 

also -- the finish on the BP M9 is fantastic.

The only spots that are brassing are from the camera bashing into other cameras, and they have not flaked further or spread.

 

i'm impressed.

 

my dealer sold me a m8.2 BP handgrip, i wanted the m9 BP handgrip, and the m8.2 handgrip is already BRASSY, it's pretty weak.

 

i want a m9 handgrip that will last like the m9 finish!

 

i digress.

excuse me.

[Guest BigSplash]

By setting your camera to a particular colour temperature, you are bound to need to batch correct a bunch, as the chances are that the temperature will be incorrect for most of them.

 

However, if you shoot RAW, this isn't an issue.

 

I am not sure what your point is here. I do shoot RAW and I do select 5600K for exterior shots and this temp value is stored in the Metadata file. I frequently then batch correct.

 

I guess the alternative is to select auto white balance and that would be like changing film type for each and every image making sequences of images difficult without significant post production. I also accept that I could shoot with setting white balance manually.

 

Am I missing something here Andy....?

[jaapv]

You can only do that if the light is constant. If, for instance, a cloud moves in front of the sun, or even if you change the direction you are taking the shots in, you cannot batch process any more. Personally I prefer to adjust each image individually, as I feel colour balancing and subsequent colour fine-tuning (which was what I was talking about initially) is more a creative decision, like for instance exposure. Of course a pro with a zillion-shot job will approach this differently and batch-process to save time.

[andybarton]

 

Am I missing something here Andy....?

 

Only that the colour temperature of your shots is going to be wrong more often than not. But at least it's consistent.

 

Some shots will need warming up and some shots will need cooling down. Not sure how you batch process that, unless you do an Auto White Balance in Lightroom on everything, in which case you may as well have left the camera on AWB in the first place.

 

Or am I missing something here?

[Guest BigSplash]

I agree with the points made. I believe that Jaapv is correct that if you change the angle of shot or the cloud moves in front of the sun it is certain that the next batch will require a different colour temp. Personally I use lightroom to do this and achieve the result I want rather than simply using auto white balance for all shots. This approachgives me consistency across a range of images.

 

Jaapv I still do not understand why you say that the M9 is better than M8 for colour rendering .....my belief is that the sensor although larger (FF) is the same technology. I guess I am not sure what you mean by colour rendering in this context.

[andybarton]

So, you change the colour temp manually in Lightroom, for when your taken temp is incorrect? How do you know what the correct temp is?

[stunsworth]

Jaapv I still do not understand why you say that the M9 is better than M8 for colour rendering .....my belief is that the sensor although larger (FF) is the same technology. I guess I am not sure what you mean by colour rendering in this context.

 

You are wrong.

 

There are differences between the sensors other than the M9 being full frame.

[jaapv]

One characteristic of belief is that it defies facts....

[jaapv]

I guess I am not sure what you mean by colour rendering in this context.

I'm not guessing, I'm convinced you don't understand what I mean. Taking a photograph is NOT about reproducing reality but about interpreting reality, unless you are doing product shots or such.

[Guest BigSplash]

So, you change the colour temp manually in Lightroom, for when your taken temp is incorrect? How do you know what the correct temp is?

 

It maybe wrong but what I actually do is as follows:

• I shoot RAW and for external shots force 5600K
  
• I load into Lightroom and then review the image for Blacks, Whites, Skin Colour in particular. At this point I may:
  
  • Select auto colour balance and see what the new temp becomes
    
  • I reset the image and revert to the original as taken by the camera
    
  • Select the white balance tool in Lightroom (although photoshop is better in my view as you set Black, White and grey) and adjust.
    

  [*]I sometimes look at the histogram results and adjust.

  [*]All of the above gives me the range of flavours of the image. I than manually adjust to something that I like the look of. I suppose that is what Jappv is suggesting.

  [*]I then batch force the other pictures in a series and possibly individually tweak those that I am interested in. ...usually at that point with Photoshop rather than Lightroom.

Is the above wrong? I am ready to learn a better workflow.

[jaapv]

What sense does it make to set a fixed colour temperature on the camera and then click auto in Lightroom?

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[Rolo]

Makes a lot of sense to shoot at a Kelvin colour temperature, rather than using AWB.

 

Provides more consistent exposures.

[jaapv]

That is true. But if you then hit "auto" in the RAW converter?