Rolo Posted January 9, 2010 Share #21 Posted January 9, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, the M9 image quality is better than the M8 but not vastly so Sorry, but that's not my experience at all. I'll happily acknowledge that a print from good file from the M8 is an excellent match to a print from the M9. ( see http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/sports-leisure-time/104258-land-rover.html to see an M8 file I was perfectly satisfied with. )No issue there; but if you throw image content away by cropping a 5 Mp, 50% crop from the M8 it's no match for a 8 Mp file from the M9. In addition, working in low light confined spaces, the M8 image quality falls apart in my world, because I need to compensate for the crop by using wider, slower lenses and as soon as I push the iso beyond 640, image quality disappears. Compensate with flash - image quality disappears. It was a nightmare and the camera starts to dictate the photographer's style. Get a 24/21 Summilux at massive expense and you've still not got a truly wide view on an M8 in any lighting conditions. For me, the M9 has a 3 stop advantage, ie M8/24mm Elmarit at 640iso versus M9/35mm Lux 1250iso ... and still the M9 file can be cropped 50% and still match the M8 file. In practice, I've found it to be no contest. I'm not talking about what I've read, it's what I've done and done many times now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 9, 2010 Posted January 9, 2010 Hi Rolo, Take a look here Things I miss on my M9. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andreas_thomsen Posted January 9, 2010 Share #22 Posted January 9, 2010 i love my M9. .... all who want a different design, ergonomics and features please do a test shoot before u buy a M9!!!!!! and if u are happy get one. if not- there are plenty of other cameras around!!!!! cheers andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 9, 2010 Share #23 Posted January 9, 2010 As an M8.2 owner, I miss the manual advance...without motor noises...on my film Ms. Discreet mode isn't the same. Same would apply to the M9. Ok, I know...much debated here already. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas_thomsen Posted January 9, 2010 Share #24 Posted January 9, 2010 imagine the answer from zuffenhausen if u tell them u don't like the shape, performance etc from the 911! it's up to a company what they want to sell!!!! as long as they get enough customers!!!! it seems that the M9 will become one of the most succesful cameras in their history. why should they change???? cheers andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
theendlesshouse Posted January 9, 2010 Share #25 Posted January 9, 2010 Strange but my thumb often reaches for the film advance lever after a shot with a digital camera. I think all the arguing over the M digital failings (of which I am guilty of) has distracted many from the fact that shooting with any Leica rangefinder is a liberating and sometimes exhilarating experience! I envy deeply those who are lucky enough to own and shoot with the full frame M9, keep the images coming! The good thing is, as sensor technology improves, they can only get better! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted January 9, 2010 Share #26 Posted January 9, 2010 I think it is. I shot 950 images at a wedding last week using 3.5 batteries and each battery change was forced by a shut-down. Whenever I checked, there was 35% power left and ten frames later it was off. I hope that Leica listens to pro photographers' needs. Battery performance is important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted January 9, 2010 Share #27 Posted January 9, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sweeping statements from one small LCD. Especially as the camera flashes "battery Low" on the rear LCD when he battery gets (very) low. The " downgrade " takes better images quality-wise in my experience. I find that slightly more important... Jaap, you are in the minority here, actually taking photographs with an M9? What a bizarre concept. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share #28 Posted January 9, 2010 To be honest so far i am not impressed by my M9. As a matter of fact I had my M8.2 for sale yet for now I am going to keep it. There is no doubt in my mind that if I did not need fullframe for my Elmarit 21 my M9 would be for sale sooner rather than later. As far as upgrades are concerned I believe that the only one I see is the fullframe sensor. Except for that I see the M9 as a downgrade over the M8.2. Software improvements such as exposure bracketing etc... can be implemented on any M8. I expect they will once the see it fit and have sold enough M9 I guess. The second point that is up for debate is picture quality. Well, after three weeks my experience is inconclusive at best. However, I will give it a vote of confidence since I have not been able to really field test it as I have my M8.2. For the first three weeks I have seen a little bit more contrast, more flaws revealed from the lenses and (believe it or not) it almost feels like it captures less light than the M8.2. But, again, once I get my Summilux 50 back and receive my Summilux 35 I will be testing it primarily with these lenses. From the reactions here I can see that there will be either an M9.2 or M10 much sooner than even Leica might think. Personally I believe they have done a very poor and disappointing job on the M9. The sensor was developed by somebody else and the question is; What have they done at Leica? Very little if you ask me. Oh, wait they removed stuff... P.s. One last remark to those that love the "simplicity" of the Leica M. Well if they keep taking stuff away (the speed dial could be next) the next M could end up looking like a box stuck to a lens. The M9 is not appealing to me at all. I put it next to my Leica IIIf and I weep... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 9, 2010 Share #29 Posted January 9, 2010 I miss the smaller sized of the earlier film Ms. We've been slowly getting larger with TTL taller and with M8 fatter. If anything I'd hope we go smaller (back to the IIIf) That's funny - I remember my father saying exactly the same thing about my M4 compared to his IIIB and IIF - plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share #30 Posted January 9, 2010 As an M8.2 owner, I miss the manual advance...without motor noises...on my film Ms. Discreet mode isn't the same. Same would apply to the M9. Ok, I know...much debated here already. Jeff Can't agree more. Never understood why the removed that. Well, I understand why yet I can't agree with the decision. It was not only quieter but also helped having the M more secure in your hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 9, 2010 Share #31 Posted January 9, 2010 Can someone post a quality comparison of M8/M8.2 vs M9? I hear often that the image quality of the M9 is 'better', would like to see it. as from what I have seen so far I am not convinced....if anyone can also include in some comparable images, skin tones and black fabric etc.. would be very helpful to many members I think. regards andy p.s I have M8.2 Andy, you are just not going to see it at a 950 x 600 JEPG on here. I think the people who are really seeing the benefit to the maximum, are those who are printing to A2. I see it when I do a significant crop. If for example you compare usage of the MATE. On the M9 you really do get a 28mm wide angle and at the other end if you take at 50mm, you can crop to 1.3 and still get the effect of a 67mm as per M8. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share #32 Posted January 9, 2010 ... if you throw image content away by cropping a 5 Mp, 50% crop from the M8 it's no match for a 8 Mp file from the M9. Well, I am "old school" and back when I started with the M6 the term "full frame" already existed when developing/printing your own work. Remember when we used to print or shots including the edges of the negatives? On top of that with the preview there is even less excuse for cropping. Cropping is not for me unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary. Out of all my best shots I would probably have cropped a hand full in my lifetime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 9, 2010 Share #33 Posted January 9, 2010 Sorry, but that's not my experience at all. I'll happily acknowledge that a print from good file from the M8 is an excellent match to a print from the M9. ( see http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/sports-leisure-time/104258-land-rover.html to see an M8 file I was perfectly satisfied with. )No issue there; but if you throw image content away by cropping a 5 Mp, 50% crop from the M8 it's no match for a 8 Mp file from the M9. In addition, working in low light confined spaces, the M8 image quality falls apart in my world, because I need to compensate for the crop by using wider, slower lenses and as soon as I push the iso beyond 640, image quality disappears. Compensate with flash - image quality disappears. It was a nightmare and the camera starts to dictate the photographer's style. Get a 24/21 Summilux at massive expense and you've still not got a truly wide view on an M8 in any lighting conditions. For me, the M9 has a 3 stop advantage, ie M8/24mm Elmarit at 640iso versus M9/35mm Lux 1250iso ... and still the M9 file can be cropped 50% and still match the M8 file. In practice, I've found it to be no contest. I'm not talking about what I've read, it's what I've done and done many times now. Agree 100%. The M8 was/is great, the M9 clearly even better - files more stable in post-processing, smoother contrast and colour transitions, better colour rendition. Quite apart from sensor noise and full-frame, which are of less interest to me. I don't really care whether some can or will discount this - it suffices for me... And yes, Pete, I humbly confess that it has been a cardinal mistake to actually use the M9 for taking photographs these last four months.. I learn from this forum that I'm a blundering fool to get excellent results..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share #34 Posted January 9, 2010 it seems that the M9 will become one of the most succesful cameras in their history. why should they change???? You are very right to say that the market is wise, however I see a lot of complaints here. Much more than I had anticipated especially from M9 owners. I am glad you are happy with your M9 as you should be. Me, I am happy it exist so I can keep shooting with an M yet on the whole I am simply disappointed at something that I had high hopes for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 9, 2010 Share #35 Posted January 9, 2010 Delete All ? I can't imagine doing that on a commercial shoot with any camera. I occasionally delete individual frames, but even that is risky when client' work is at stake. Suppose this is why we've all got different requirements. "Delete all" only deletes unprotected images, Rolo. Just look on it this way: we are depending on electronics all the way - why be fearful of one small aspect that has never ever failed yet, and trust all others that have no more than a 99.99% track record? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 9, 2010 Share #36 Posted January 9, 2010 From the reactions here I can see that there will be either an M9.2 or M10 much sooner than even Leica might think. Personally I believe they have done a very poor and disappointing job on the M9. The sensor was developed by somebody else and the question is; What have they done at Leica? Very little if you ask me. Oh, wait they removed stuff... Nice rhetoric..:rolleyes:The false premisse is glaring. And malicious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted January 9, 2010 Share #37 Posted January 9, 2010 Well, I am "old school" and back when I started with the M6 the term "full frame" already existed when developing/printing your own work. Remember when we used to print or shots including the edges of the negatives? On top of that with the preview there is even less excuse for cropping. Cropping is not for me unless it is ABSOLUTELY necessary. Out of all my best shots I would probably have cropped a hand full in my lifetime. There will be some here who know how to develop 5x4 film by inspection using a green safe light. I'm one of them. However, things have moved on and I've responded to that to make sure I can satisfy my clients requirements and earn a living with my cameras. I crop, straighten, colour balance, merge ....... etc, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share #38 Posted January 9, 2010 Nice rhetoric..:rolleyes:The false premisse is glaring. And malicious. Why malicious and false premise? Please elaborate... Just trying to put my point across. As far as I am concerned I could be much more malicious. There are many things left out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share #39 Posted January 9, 2010 There will be some here who know how to develop 5x4 film using a green safe light. I'm one of them. However, things have emoved on and I've responded to that to make sure I can satisfy my clients requirements and earn a living with my cameras. I crop, straighten, colour balance, merge ....... etc, etc. There is nothing wrong with that! In my case I do not earn a living with that so I have only myself to make happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chistoso Posted January 9, 2010 Share #40 Posted January 9, 2010 What I miss most on an M9 is my two hands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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