jsrockit Posted December 28, 2009 Share #41 Â Posted December 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Exactly. People are doing themselves and others a disservice when they defend its faults because then Leica has no incentive to fix them in the future. There is too much blind loyalty. If you want Leica to continue making high quality products then you will criticize them when they fail to get things right. Â So, you really think Leica cares about what people, who haven't used the camera, think? Sure, the reviews may get something fixed and USERs might get something fixed, but not people complaining when they've never used the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 Hi jsrockit, Take a look here Leica X1 video with AF demo. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
contaxgary Posted December 28, 2009 Share #42 Â Posted December 28, 2009 Now that is just a crazy statement. The people at Leica go out of their way to project a positive impression of the camera long before it ever comes out. They must think that it will help their sales, therefore posing negative impressions would not be what they are looking for. I noticed that they didn't push how wonderful it is to stare at the LCD screen from inches away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted December 28, 2009 Share #43 Â Posted December 28, 2009 Right, but Leica has to take negative impressions with a grain of salt until the X1 is actually in people's hands. At $2000, there would be a lot of haters for this camera even if it was perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
contaxgary Posted December 28, 2009 Share #44 Â Posted December 28, 2009 The comments relate to what people want. Manufacturers that ignore what their customers want cease to be in business. Leica loyalist will buy regardless, but that is a shrinking customer base. Others will look to the marketplace for what they want. Companies like Toyota don't make it to the top without spending a good bit of time and money listening to their customers. Of course, the folks on this board represent just a small fraction of those that use cameras, but they are a good resource and I bet that the camera companies monitor some of these camera forums. Â That said, most following this thread have a real interest in this segment of the camera market. I am going to buy a small, large sensor camera. So will you, or why else chew the fat here? I want to love the X1 and upon holding it I will do my best to convince myself to buy it, but I won't buy it if it doesn't meet my needs. I hope that Leica, Sony, Canon, Nikon, Ricoh and Panasonic listen. High quality, small form factor, reliable, simple to operate, traditional functions on body/lens, functional viewfinder, fast reacting cameras that produce quality low ISO images are what I want. First up with that product gets my money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted December 28, 2009 Share #45 Â Posted December 28, 2009 High quality, small form factor, reliable, simple to operate, traditional functions on body/lens, functional viewfinder, fast reacting cameras that produce quality low ISO images are what I want. First up with that product gets my money. Â That's what everybody wants, but my guess is that it won't exist for the next few years. That is why you either have to keep waiting or make do with what is out there. I understand that at $2000, it is hard to make do, but it is the closest I've come to seeing a compact digital that fits what I want. That is what excites me. However, I may just not be able to pay the $2000 for it... I may make do with an Olympus instead since the M8 is my main camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
strugatzki Posted December 28, 2009 Share #46  Posted December 28, 2009  I somehow feel the need to point out the obvious: actually, it's a € 1.500,- camera, which still is expensive, but considerably less than USD 2,000 when compared to other products. Most of the pain potential US buyers contemplate is due to current state of the dollar. I know this is both of little comfort and does not change the price at all, but hey — obviously, Leica tries to be a little like Apple regarding their "reality distortion field" (=good products characterized as sensational, revolutionary etc products), and do you Americans know what Apple charges for its gear in Europe, and how they demanded a premium in addition to the exchange rate differential for years (it got a little less shameless recently)? You can't have it all :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM6 Posted December 28, 2009 Share #47 Â Posted December 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Later I began to realize that this model is nothing more then a stepping stone into the LEICA system for the ones ready for it. Â Hi tri, How so this X1 be a stepping stone into LEICA "System"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted December 28, 2009 Share #48 Â Posted December 28, 2009 Most of the pain potential US buyers contemplate is due to current state of the dollar. Â Even with a strong dollar, Leica is expensive. Even if wew were 1:1 and the camera was $1500, it is still expensive for what it is. I do use Macs as well and have seen how much they rip off people from other countries. Same happens with music gear. Oh well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2009 Share #49  Posted December 28, 2009 Hi tri,How so this X1 be a stepping stone into LEICA "System"?  Hi MarkM6,  someone considering putting up with the tripple price of the Sigma into a fixed prime lens, high IQ digital Leica may want a 2010 digital LEICA and is seriously considering spending this ammount.  If truely ready to spend the double of the GF1 with a 20mm, looking for a working M8 and a 25-28mm lens will not be a such a big step. Could it be it's "being in the club"? I remember saving as a student for a M2 (older than me) and a 35mm. Never regreted it.  It is also logical and I agree with you, that getting a working M6 and a decent 35mm lens + tons of film are a better way, but film could be anathema for many.  I think we agree, that pictures taken with a M Leica and a 28 or 35 or 50 can simply not be taken with any other camera, for the time being. Traing VF focussing regularly might be more basic than forum reading and posting about the new miracle tool  Of cause you're right, that M is a bit of a "non-system": a body, ideally one lens on it, pics.  HAPPY NEW YEAR! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted December 28, 2009 Share #50 Â Posted December 28, 2009 Macs have come back into the field price wise ........... the iphone/ipod saw to that, it is just another intel computer these days. The days of mac ripping of due to its name are long gone, they appear in the sales 20% off etc section just like the rest. Â ........there are just a few stragglers holding unto the world of yesterday, the romance of the great white hunter as a photographer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted December 29, 2009 Share #51 Â Posted December 29, 2009 The days of mac ripping of due to its name are long gone, they appear in the sales 20% off etc section just like the rest. Â Only the old models show up in the 20% section... nothing new. Plus, even though they are intel machines, they do cost a premium to most comparable laptops / machines. I know it isn't that simple... but to say they don't use their name to charge a premium is simply not true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted December 29, 2009 Share #52 Â Posted December 29, 2009 You live in a dream world....... macs are cheaper than ever and there are current macs available at sale prices. There are schools primary and secondary full of them, given to kids for free.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted December 29, 2009 Share #53 Â Posted December 29, 2009 You live in a dream world....... macs are cheaper than ever and there are current macs available at sale prices. There are schools primary and secondary full of them, given to kids for free.......... Â While I can assure you I do live in the real world, you are correct. It does appear that even mainstream stores are allowed to offer discounts on new macs. The school discounts and freebies have always existed. I just didn't realize that they allowed for discounts for the average buyer now. Good to know. Â So, you've proved me wrong. Do you feel good? Â However, I do believe, even with the discounts, they are priced at a premium for the average user. If they were not, people in my field (financial industry = average user IMHO) would not complain about the prices every time I say they should switch to Mac. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted December 29, 2009 Share #54 Â Posted December 29, 2009 ...nothing to do with proving wrong it was just the apple no longer that niche product, ........ I have a Dell with Snow Leopard on it and works as well as any of my other macs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h00ligan Posted December 30, 2009 Share #55 Â Posted December 30, 2009 Only the old models show up in the 20% section... nothing new. Plus, even though they are intel machines, they do cost a premium to most comparable laptops / machines. I know it isn't that simple... but to say they don't use their name to charge a premium is simply not true. Â Macs don't have a premium anymore with the exception of the mac pro, we'll have to give that one. Spec a laptop or desktop into imac or macbook territory. Not to mention TCO considerations.. which actually make most macs significantly LESS than a pc in a 3 year time period. The users complaining of a premium are not comparing like spec machines, they are comparing the most basic entry level big box discount to a macbook or imac..not the one with better res, mem, disk, gfx card, weight, processor. Just "hey i can get a pc for $600!" without concern of the specs - most of those users are also the ones bitching when the machine breaks down regularly due to being made with rock bottom dollar parts. Â The question is, does leica TCO level the field on the X1 - it's a new model so nobody knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
contaxgary Posted December 31, 2009 Share #56  Posted December 31, 2009 ...nothing to do with proving wrong it was just the apple no longer that niche product, ........ I have a Dell with Snow Leopard on it and works as well as any of my other macs  While it is true that you can put Snow Leopard on other Intel machines, at least in the United States, this violates the software agreement with Apple.  These threads seem to be getting way off topic, because the topic seems to continue to be vaporware. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted December 31, 2009 Share #57 Â Posted December 31, 2009 Just "hey i can get a pc for $600!" without concern of the specs - most of those users are also the ones bitching when the machine breaks down regularly due to being made with rock bottom dollar parts.. Â Which is why I said I know it is not that simple. Additionally, I said the average user... meaning they can get away with less than what Apple offers (though I think anyone who knows nothing about computers and is sloppy on the internet should use a Mac). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taildraggin Posted December 31, 2009 Share #58  Posted December 31, 2009 In a nut:  - DSLR/M8 image quality (DNG) - 'rangefinder' focusing speeds (compare to other M Leicas) - Excellent operations - Excellent build - Leica cost  Sounds like a Leica. (They didn't have a commercially successful camera with internal metering system in the M-series until 1984 and somehow survived.)  It looks like all the other cameras are worse at everything but AF and cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiOnara Posted December 31, 2009 Share #59  Posted December 31, 2009 I will still have to buy an X1 as it's a win win situation. If it turns out to be a great camera, splendid, if it turn out to be a dud, it will be cancelled and become a collectors item. ££££ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM6 Posted December 31, 2009 Share #60  Posted December 31, 2009 In a nut: - DSLR/M8 image quality (DNG) - 'rangefinder' focusing speeds (compare to other M Leicas) - Excellent operations - Excellent build - Leica cost  Hmmmmm... in a darker scene with AF-Assist light off? Or you mean, Manual focus on X1 vs. M6/35mm Summicron? are you willing to bet your X1 for it?  P.S. I am not against the X1. I love how Leica sets the new standard in compact camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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