jlam Posted December 20, 2009 Share #1 Posted December 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Currently on the digital Ms two of the exposure parameters, aperture and shutter speed, are set via dedicated, manually controlled ring on the lens and on-camera dial respectively. On the film Ms there used to be a third dial on the back for ISO. For some reason with the switch to digital this third parameter no longer has a dedicated dial and one needs to use a button, a dial and the LCD to change it. It might have been due to the fact that ISO is now a parameter for the digital sensor and therefore it seems logical to do it digitally. But I think it takes away the simplicity and directness of control a manual dial provides and doesn't go well with the philosophy of the M system. Joseph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 20, 2009 Posted December 20, 2009 Hi jlam, Take a look here Leica, pls put the ISO dial back in the next digital M. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
amedick Posted December 20, 2009 Share #2 Posted December 20, 2009 I think the ISO dial skould come back in new M also, but my preferred location would be where the rewind film knob is on the M7. Would like it to look just like rewind knob, but have ISO markings. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
holgerf Posted December 20, 2009 Share #3 Posted December 20, 2009 I think the ISO dial skould come back in new M also, but my preferred location would be where the rewind film knob is on the M7. Would like it to look just like rewind knob, but have ISO markings. I absolutely agree. In particular due to the digital age the ISO mutated just to be the third variable besides f-stop and shutter speed for every single shot. So there is every reason to give the ISO the same level of easiness in handling and monitoring as to the others. It is one of the secrets of camera designers why this finding does take so long. Best Holger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted December 20, 2009 Share #4 Posted December 20, 2009 I agree that this would be a good idea and the empty space where the rewind know used to be would be the perfect place. And it should be a mechanical dial like the one for shutter speed so that you can set and read it even if the camera is turned off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted December 20, 2009 Share #5 Posted December 20, 2009 Funny, I find using the M9 controls to set ISO to be just like using a film M. Hold the camera with the left thumb hitting the ISO button, and the right thumb twirling the control wheel, just as if it was the dial on an M6-MP. Exactly the same hand motions. I really value the increased fineness of picking ISOs on the M9 (being able to pick 400 instead of a forced choice of 320 or 640). I think any dial that could hold all 15 values from "Auto" to "2500" in type large enough to read would be far too big to fit in the "rewind knob" location. However, if anyone wants to provide a sketch of a dial and location that would work better than the present M9 system, I'd be interested, and I'm sure Leica would be, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanidel Posted December 20, 2009 Share #6 Posted December 20, 2009 Funny, I find using the M9 controls to set ISO to be just like using a film M I agree, add to that the Auto-ISO feature and there is IMO less of a need to have a dedicated ISO dial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofc Posted December 20, 2009 Share #7 Posted December 20, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) The ISO dial should be exactly like the MP rewind crank with a lift and turn motion. There should be a stiff click between each position with the ISO clearly marked on the dial. That way one could do it by feel since there are really only 5 settings: iso 160, 320, 640, 1250, 2500. The pull 80 should be a menu item. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/107306-leica-pls-put-the-iso-dial-back-in-the-next-digital-m/?do=findComment&comment=1158421'>More sharing options...
adan Posted December 20, 2009 Share #8 Posted December 20, 2009 "There are really only 5 settings....160, 320, 640, 1250, 2500" Excuse me? I do not think you are correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted December 20, 2009 Share #9 Posted December 20, 2009 Why not put it on the shutter speed dial? Visible through a little window, so that you can alter the iso speed by lifting and twisting. (As was done on many cameras of years gone by.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofc Posted December 20, 2009 Share #10 Posted December 20, 2009 I have an M8 and haven't received my M9 yet. I just reviewed a video which shows a lot more iso choices on the M9. Even if there were 10 the dial would still work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhabedi Posted December 20, 2009 Share #11 Posted December 20, 2009 I really value the increased fineness of picking ISOs on the M9 (being able to pick 400 instead of a forced choice of 320 or 640). I think any dial that could hold all 15 values from "Auto" to "2500" in type large enough to read would be far too big to fit in the "rewind knob" location. The shutter speed dial has 33 click stops. Some intermediate values aren't printed, but it's nevertheless very easy to see which value is currently selected. For the ISO dial, you'd need only 15 stops (not even half as much) of which only the "full" values need to be printed like on many old film cameras. Something like this: A . 160 . . 320 . . 640 . . 1250 . . 2500 That could be done with a dial significantly smaller than the shutter speed dial. I don't see a big problem there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted December 21, 2009 Share #12 Posted December 21, 2009 I agree that this would be a good idea and the empty space where the rewind know used to be would be the perfect place. That is the perfect place for the wheel, not specifically for ISO, but for menus navigation as well. The Epson-RD1 has this kind of wheel. The back interface for the future Ms may adopt the layout of the S2: four simple programable buttons, the screen and a wheel. The top left corner of the body is an elegant solution for a cleaner back, but it isn't the only possibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoody Posted December 21, 2009 Share #13 Posted December 21, 2009 Given how much I use the Auto ISO feature, if there were an ISO dial on the camera, I'd like the dial to simply specify the maximum ISO value when the camera is in Auto ISO mode -- that would be pretty handy as it currently requires: button press, scroll through menu options, button press, down arrow, button press, scroll through ISO list, and button press. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted December 21, 2009 Share #14 Posted December 21, 2009 Something like this: A . 160 . . 320 . . 640 . . 1250 . . 2500 That could be done with a dial significantly smaller than the shutter speed dial. This is a very good idea. Canon's G9, G10 and G11 have an ISO dial. It is nice to simply turn the dial and not have to use a menu. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 21, 2009 Share #15 Posted December 21, 2009 Why not put it on the shutter speed dial? Visible through a little window, so that you can alter the iso speed by lifting and twisting... Old ideas are often the best (Epson R-D1). Curious that it takes so long for Leica to realise that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanidel Posted December 21, 2009 Share #16 Posted December 21, 2009 Old ideas are often the best (Epson R-D1). Curious that it takes so long for Leica to realise that. Since you mention the R-D1 which I also own, its dial is great yet it has shortcomings too : - need small fingers - not easy to read what position you are in, especially in low light. - limited to 4 positions. - sometimes by trying to modify the setting, you also move the speed dial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 21, 2009 Share #17 Posted December 21, 2009 Yes just 4 positions. Easy to retrieve, even in the dark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanidel Posted December 21, 2009 Share #18 Posted December 21, 2009 Yes just 4 positions. Easy to retrieve, even in the dark. Yet way faster to change with the M9 with increased visibility and don't have to move your hands from your camera grab. I really love the R-D1 ISO dial, but the M9 new ISO button is a big improvement in speed of operations which is sometimes important when after the decisive moment I also think that with a bit of practice and memory you can actually change ISO's on the M9 without looking at the LCD. The wheel acts like a dial, it even has click stops. So why put another dial on the camera ? Edit : actually this gave me an idea ... could Leica just not put ISO markings around the thumb wheel ? A level mark could be put on the wheel and by positing it on the corresponding ISO marking, it would change the ISO ? (by of course also pressing the ISO button to avoid modifications by mistake) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 21, 2009 Share #19 Posted December 21, 2009 ...So why put another dial on the camera ? To avoid chimping maybe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanidel Posted December 21, 2009 Share #20 Posted December 21, 2009 To avoid chimping maybe? My solution to that will be to put a Luigi half case... (ok, with detachable patch ... sometimes, you just have to chimp) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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