Who would like an M 9 autofocus?

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Who would like an M9 with optional autofocus or aided focus with viefinder help?

In case of not or yes why?

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[gwelland]

Leica will happily sell you an autofocus digital camera - it's called an S2.

[cheewai_m6]

no. M series is perfect the way it is.

[stealthman_1]

No, not interested. The camera already confirms focus. The green dot confirmation in Nikon cameras is only accurate on f2.8 or smaller apertures, it is not as precise as the focus confirmation that comes with the Leica.

[JTrunck]

Personally, NO>

 

Autofocus would require making the lenses larger and heaver; look at the diameter of Nikon, Canon, and now the new Zeiss autofocusing lenses. Something has to drive the focusing ring of the lens.

 

Also there would more battery drain, and the M8/9 batteries aren't that great to begin with.

 

Small and simple is what the M series is all about, IMO.

 

Jim

 

http://www.jimtrunck.com

[k-hawinkler]

No, not interested. The camera already confirms focus. The green dot confirmation in Nikon cameras is only accurate on f2.8 or smaller apertures, it is not as precise as the focus confirmation that comes with the Leica.

 

Thanks. How does that technically work in a Leica? Any details?

Also, do you have a reference for the green dot confirmation for the Nikon?

Can I find it in the Nikon user manual, for example?

Thanks.

[Bill W]

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Gotta be kidding, could not afford to replace all of the great glass I already own.

[zlatkob]

See the recent "fickle diehards" thread. Autofocus is a great tool and Leica already makes autofocus cameras, just not in this format. Leitz apparently patented autofocus. It makes great sense to make an M9-sized and -styled, M-quality autofocus camera with it's own line of interchangeable lenses, preferably with an M-compatible mount, ... but to call it something other than an "M" to keep people from freaking out. If the camera offered quality and speed, it would sell much more than the medium format S2 and would be much more practical than the one-lens X1. It wouldn't replace the M9 or the M-system.

 

The lenses would be bigger than M lenses, but not huge. SLR lenses aren't big just because of the autofocus. (Some of the new f/1.4 M lenses are already very big.) An improved battery would certainly be needed, but that's hardly an argument against it. Some small DSLRs with small batteries provide very good battery life despite having autofocus.

[stealthman_1]

Thanks. How does that technically work in a Leica? Any details?

Also, do you have a reference for the green dot confirmation for the Nikon?

Can I find it in the Nikon user manual, for example?

Thanks.

I don't think Nikon is going to point out in their materials that their Professional grade camera AF isn't perfect.

I use my D3 for reference. With the camera in AF and a typical f2.8 lens mounted at f2.8(I used the 24-70 f2.8), there is only one point of manual focus where the green dot is illuminated using the most minimal bumps of the focus ring. A shot made at this point normally should be in focus. With a faster lens, (I use the Noct Nikkor 58 f1.2) I can discern 6 different points of possible manual focus with the green dot lit. Only one of them is perfect focus. Even with a high contrast subject I should focus bracket inside the green dot zone to ensure I get the sharpest shot. With a Leica, focus confirmation is achieved when the rangefinder images are perfectly aligned. Unless the subject is very dark or has low contrast, I never focus bracket with my 50 lux @ f1.4.

[stealthman_1]

See the recent "fickle diehards" thread

It's not nonsense to understand the limitations of AF technology and its application to a system built largely around lenses that will exceed the limitations.

 

Nikon doesn't tell you that because their brand depends on autofocus technology to compete with Canon. With f2.8 and smaller apertures its not an issue.

[jamriman]

An auto focus lens on an M camera is like a Ferrari with an automatic transmission.

[redbaron]

It would have to focus damn quickly. My M lenses focus quicker than any autofocus lens I've ever owned.

[k-hawinkler]

I don't think Nikon is going to point out in their materials that their Professional grade camera AF isn't perfect.

I use my D3 for reference. With the camera in AF and a typical f2.8 lens mounted at f2.8(I used the 24-70 f2.8), there is only one point of manual focus where the green dot is illuminated using the most minimal bumps of the focus ring. A shot made at this point normally should be in focus. With a faster lens, (I use the Noct Nikkor 58 f1.2) I can discern 6 different points of possible manual focus with the green dot lit. Only one of them is perfect focus. Even with a high contrast subject I should focus bracket inside the green dot zone to ensure I get the sharpest shot. With a Leica, focus confirmation is achieved when the rangefinder images are perfectly aligned. Unless the subject is very dark or has low contrast, I never focus bracket with my 50 lux @ f1.4.

 

Many thanks. Very interesting. I happen to have the 2 lenses you referred to and the D3 as well. I just verified your description to the best of my ability. Indeed, using the Noct Nikkor at f1.2, the green focusing dot is lit for quite a bit when turning the focus ring whereas for the 24-70 at f2.8 manual focus is very narrow. Terrific. Thanks again.

[Sully]

I'm with you on this one Zlatkob. I used a Contax G2 system along with my manual Leicas for years. Both systems worked just fine together. I would love to have a similar auto focus digital rangefinder system to work with my M 9s. I hope the X 1 is Leica's courageous little toe in the muddy waters of auto focus.

 

Ciao, Sully

[Rick]

Who would like some spandex in their nice Trussardi linen shirt?

[zlatkob]

I'm with you on this one Zlatkob. I used a Contax G2 system along with my manual Leicas for years. Both systems worked just fine together. I would love to have a similar auto focus digital rangefinder system to work with my M 9s. I hope the X 1 is Leica's courageous little toe in the muddy waters of auto focus.

 

Ciao, Sully

 

Thank you. I'm glad someone understands.

 

Who would like some spandex in their nice Trussardi linen shirt?

 

An auto focus lens on an M camera is like a Ferrari with an automatic transmission.

 

So, are those against autofocus saying that the $2K X1 and the $23K S2 basically suck and that they're not Leicas? Are those just automatic/spandex cameras? Hmmmm. Doesn't it stand to reason that if Leica can make autofocus cameras in APS-C (X1) format and medium format (S2), that they can also make a very good autofocus camera in-between in the popular 35mm size? Would it be such a crime to make that camera M-sized, essentially M-shaped, and, most of all, of M-quality? They can continue to make manual focus Ms until the end of the time; the AF camera could be a new product line sold side-by-side with the M.

[adan]

Mmmnn-No.

 

Autofocus - and its compromising effects on lens design, lens construction, viewfinders and response lag - are precisely what drove me into the arms of Leica M in the first place.

 

I'll give Contax credit for not compromising optical quality with the G series (albeit in a limited range of mostly f/2.8 lenses - where were the f/1.4s?) - but their pinchy little finder, lack of real manual focus (rings on the lenses, folks - even the PanaLeica D2 did better) and some other poor engineering decisions (like racking the lens back to infinity after each shot, even when "manually" focused on a fixed point) just show that compromise is almost unavoidable once AF poisons the well.

 

I was, just out of curiousity, testing my Contax G lenses against a borrowed Leica M4-2 and a couple of lenses back in 2001 when I ran into a friend on the street. As she talked and gestured, I made a few snaps with both cameras.

 

The Leica just fired, the instant I pushed the button, every time.

 

The Contax hunted for focus, fired 2 seconds after the moments had passed, and generally acted like a deer in the headlights.

 

I didn't even bother to look at the lens tests results (which the Contax would probably have won) - the MF Leica had already proved how much AF had crippled the Contax before I even said goodbye to my friend and headed back to the lab.

 

The next day I owned the borrowed M4-2 and those lenses (21/90) - having happily traded in 3 G bodies and 4 lenses. Never looked back.

 

Next subject...

[comapedrosa]

+1 for AF!!!

 

My eyes are not that good, plus my experience with AF in DSLR's has been very good.

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Hallo,

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[stealthman_1]

Thank you. I'm glad someone understands.

 

So, are those against autofocus saying that the $2K X1 and the $23K S2 basically suck and that they're not Leicas?

 

As the previous poster mentioned the Contax isn't without huge trade offs. The X1 and S2 don't suck, no one said that either. They have lenses fully capable of using AF to advantage and lenses that don't exceed the capabilities of AF. I'm beginning to believe you truly don't understand that AF isn't the panacea those heavily vested in it would like you to believe in order to extract dollars from your pocket. Is it a wonderful advancement, absolutely. Does it have a place in Leica's lineup, surely. Does it belong on an M, no and not for luddite reasons.

[doug_m]

In theory having both manual and autofocus Ms could work but practically speaking I doubt this would be a good idea for Leica's survival. It seems like the Digital M is responsible for Leica still being around because it is based on expensive Leica optics that will work on both old film Leicas and Digital Ms for the foreseeable future.

 

Many M users continue to invest in expensive Leica glass because they are confident they will be able to use such glass for a long time if not the rest of their lives even if the particular Digital M model becomes obsolete. I bet Leica M lenses hold their value better than any other type of photographic equipment currently on the market. This is because of such consumer confidence. If Leica changed this concept it would be very bad if not disastrous.

 

Having both auto focus and manual focus M lines would dliute R and D and enthusiasm. I think it would be too risky. Manual focus, great glass, and few whistles and bells in a traditional Leica M RF outer shell is what makes the M8/M9 great. I would vote no on autofocus.