scott kirkpatrick Posted March 7, 2010 Share #61 Posted March 7, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Looking at Jon Slack's post (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/114311-red-edge-lenses.html#post1211158) it looks like the Elmarit asph is one of the lenses that needs work on in firmware. My understanding from a recent exchange is that the NEW lenses are the ones that are being given immediate attention - so I'd hold on to yours until the new firmware is released (week or two I hear...) Best C: Who knows when the new firmware will be cut loose, but the NEW lenses are not the ones with deep-set rear elements and exit pupils close to the image plane. The Noctilux, and the two new Summiluxes are not reported to cause red edge problems, even in very warm light. My candidate for a firmware improvement is the 28/2.8-asph, which in my experience does have a full Italian Flag when uncorrected. That was probably the last lens to be designed before Leica had made a comittment to a full frame future... scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 7, 2010 Posted March 7, 2010 Hi scott kirkpatrick, Take a look here The M9, lenses and the "red edge" problem. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Alnitak Posted March 7, 2010 Author Share #62 Posted March 7, 2010 Who knows when the new firmware will be cut loose, but the NEW lenses are not the ones with deep-set rear elements and exit pupils close to the image plane. The Noctilux, and the two new Summiluxes are not reported to cause red edge problems, even in very warm light. My candidate for a firmware improvement is the 28/2.8-asph, which in my experience does have a full Italian Flag when uncorrected. That was probably the last lens to be designed before Leica had made a comittment to a full frame future... scott Weren't they totally committed to full-frame at that time--film? In 2006 there weren't a lot of FF cameras out there at all, and Leica had just introduced the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 7, 2010 Share #63 Posted March 7, 2010 Weren't they totally committed to full-frame at that time--film? In 2006 there weren't a lot of FF cameras out there at all, and Leica had just introduced the M8. The M8 and the 28 Elmarit-asph came out at the same time. That lens was almost a "kit lens" for the M8. Wide open, it gives superb resolution and contrast in the center of the field, with a falloff starting at the distance to the corners of the M8's smaller frame. Stopped down to f/5.6, it is sharp across the full frame. It is the first "new" lens I bought when I got the M8, since it was less frightfully expensive, and I came to it from Olympus, Nikon F, and a Leica M2 with used Canon lenses. Anyway it is a lovely lens on the M9 as well, contrasty, small and good for travelling. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alnitak Posted March 7, 2010 Author Share #64 Posted March 7, 2010 The M8 and the 28 Elmarit-asph came out at the same time. That lens was almost a "kit lens" for the M8. Wide open, it gives superb resolution and contrast in the center of the field, with a falloff starting at the distance to the corners of the M8's smaller frame. Stopped down to f/5.6, it is sharp across the full frame. It is the first "new" lens I bought when I got the M8, since it was less frightfully expensive, and I came to it from Olympus, Nikon F, and a Leica M2 with used Canon lenses. Anyway it is a lovely lens on the M9 as well, contrasty, small and good for travelling. scott Right, but you missed my point. I thought your prior post was implying that the 28 was not designed for full-frame, and my point was that it was--full-frame film--like most of Leica's lenses. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 7, 2010 Share #65 Posted March 7, 2010 Right, but you missed my point. I thought your prior post was implying that the 28 was not designed for full-frame, and my point was that it was--full-frame film--like most of Leica's lenses. Jeff No, I didn't miss the point. In fact, I disagree with you on that one. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alnitak Posted March 7, 2010 Author Share #66 Posted March 7, 2010 No, I didn't miss the point. In fact, I disagree with you on that one. scott Help me understand your position: Are you saying that this lens was *not* designed with full-frame use in mind? And I'm not talking digital, I'm talking FF no matter the format? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 7, 2010 Share #67 Posted March 7, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think its design was strongly influenced by the imminent announcement of the M8. It's a good lens for full frame but a better lens for the reduced frame of the M8. And some compromises seem to have been made that kept it small and reduced the price at which it could be sold to significantly less than the other aspherical lenses. That's what I mean by saying that it seems to have been meant as the "kit lens" that would sell with the M8. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alnitak Posted March 7, 2010 Author Share #68 Posted March 7, 2010 I think its design was strongly influenced by the imminent announcement of the M8. It's a good lens for full frame but a better lens for the reduced frame of the M8. And some compromises seem to have been made that kept it small and reduced the price at which it could be sold to significantly less than the other aspherical lenses. That's what I mean by saying that it seems to have been meant as the "kit lens" that would sell with the M8. scott Ahh. Well, I guess I am a skeptic of that view, as it just doesn't seem to be something Leica would be given to do, given their culture, and the fact that at the time 99.9999% of all the potential buyers of the lens would have been users of film. But hey, we all are welcome to have our own interpretations, since Leica will never tell us what they were thinking at the time. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 7, 2010 Share #69 Posted March 7, 2010 A long term thinking company - producing lens for temporary crop body? Does it mean, new version would be released soon? Or buyers will have lenses replaced by the company? PS: When I read some Leica folders or pages I also have idea that it produced some stuff having crop in mind. But it only would say about lack of vision OR prefsionalism... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 7, 2010 Share #70 Posted March 7, 2010 it just doesn't seem to be something Leica would be given to do, given their culture Jeff - I fully agree with you!!! But even recently when I was reading what LEICA writes in its materials (it was about SUMMARITS series) - I am scarred! They repeat VERY OFTEN that far corners are soft, but it is NOT VISIBLE on M8. Or when closed down to f/5.6. Who cares crop long term? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alnitak Posted March 7, 2010 Author Share #71 Posted March 7, 2010 Jeff - I fully agree with you!!! But even recently when I was reading what LEICA writes in its materials (it was about SUMMARITS series) - I am scarred! They repeat VERY OFTEN that far corners are soft, but it is NOT VISIBLE on M8. Or when closed down to f/5.6. Who cares crop long term? Interesting on the Summarits. Where did you read this? Given that many older design lenses also are soft in the corners, I guess its not too surprising, but the prices of the Summarits are just too high for that. If I want soft corners wide open, I will buy the Voigtlanders at 1/3 the price. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 7, 2010 Share #72 Posted March 7, 2010 Leica Camera AG - Photography - Summarit-M Lenses Click on PRODUCT INFO on the right (PDF) or below link: http://us.leica-camera.com/assets/file/download.php?filename=file_3647.pdf SUMMARIT-M 35 mm f/2.5 On the digital LEICA M8, the image quality is superb right to the edges of the picture, even at full aperture. In analog applications, performance in the extreme corners of the image can be improved slightly by stopping down to f/5.6. SUMMARIT-M 75 mm f/2.5 A slight reduction in quality can only be seen in the corners – which are not even captured by the slightly smaller format of the digital LEICA M8 – but this can be almost totally liminated by stopping down to 5.6. etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 8, 2010 Share #73 Posted March 8, 2010 "[...] layer of micro-lenses which should not be interpreted as lenses in the classical sense, only smaller, but as a large blanket of bubbles overlaying the photodiodes. The shape of these micro-lenses is not exactly identical, element for element. In the case of the Leica M camera, the shape of the micro-lenses is such that some color fringing is exaggerated and even caused by that shape. If we note color fringing in a Leica M picture, there are several causes: the property of the lens, the shape of the micro-lens and the interpretation algorithm of the in-camera processing system. Leica is of course fully aware of these conditions." M9 final verdict Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 8, 2010 Share #74 Posted March 8, 2010 Interesting: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/118291-puts-news.html#post1256198 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted March 8, 2010 Share #75 Posted March 8, 2010 But even recently when I was reading what LEICA writes in its materials (it was about SUMMARITS series) - I am scarred!They repeat VERY OFTEN that far corners are soft, but it is NOT VISIBLE on M8. Or when closed down to f/5.6. Jeff, I'd say that they are commendably honest. Every photographic lens does exhibit some definition fall-off toward the periphery of the image circle. Only some lenses of long focal length can in some cases (mostly Leica cases!) perform completely evenly from center to corners, at least when stopped down. Any lens that has this fall-off, be it even the current 50mm Summicron, will of necessity perform better if only the central 2/3 of the image circle is used. All this is amply demonstrated by MTF graphs. The perfect lens, however you would define it, DOES NOT EXIST. It cannot exist. Any actual lens is a compromise between conflicting 'wants' that have to be balanced. One of the 'wants' is affordability. Even so, Summarit lenses do this balancing act on a higher rope than that of most any other manufacturer. Canon and Nikon lens lists contain many 'semi-lemons' -- but these manufacturers woud never admit it. Leica do not design lemons. When unavoidable compromises are deliberately entered on, they do mention them. All honour to them for this. People whose existential needs conflict with this simple fact of life should not go into photography. Maybe they shouldn't even go out. The old man from the Age of the Cemented Triplet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 8, 2010 Share #76 Posted March 8, 2010 What I read in many reviews, was that Zeiss lenses keep sharpness best across whole frame, better than Leica ones. It means are sharper until corners, but less sharp in center. Everybody has choice which is good I believe I am new to M glass, and was positively shocked, even when I saw results from SUMMARITS + M9! The same with CV 15mm vs soft Canon 16-35mm (on 5D II) II! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 8, 2010 Share #77 Posted March 8, 2010 I'm not convinced. Today I got my ZM Biogon 21/2.8 returned. On the M8 this lens performs as good or better as the best Leica offerings. But on the M9 I find the edges and corners rather disappointing and heavily vignetted. So it has got its IR filter screwded on again and is in the backup bag with the M8... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted March 8, 2010 Share #78 Posted March 8, 2010 I'm not convinced. Today I got my ZM Biogon 21/2.8 returned. On the M8 this lens performs as good or better as the best Leica offerings. But on the M9 I find the edges and corners rather disappointing and heavily vignetted. So it has got its IR filter screwded on again and is in the backup bag with the M8... That's kind of bad news, its small brother, the C Biogon 21/4.5, an excellent lens otherwise and particularly on the M8, does not work on the M9. I just packed mine for selling and had some hopes for the 21/2.8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 8, 2010 Share #79 Posted March 8, 2010 The problem I had with the lens was the construction. It suddenly went out of focus. I sent it in to kameraservice and it turned out that, as opposed to Leica lenses that have the elements fixed in an optical cell, the lens elements are individually shimmed in the barrel. The shim on the deepest element had worked loose, making it an absolute horror to reassemble. I suppose the tolerances on the individual lens elements is bigger than at Leica, making this construction needed. From now on I am advising everybody to go with Leica Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 8, 2010 Share #80 Posted March 8, 2010 Hmm - FWIW I'm very happy with the Zeiss 18. For the number of times I need this focal length it's great value - tack sharp, good colour rendering, and with the LR graduated filter I have no problem correcting red edge... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/105486-the-m9-lenses-and-the-red-edge-problem/?do=findComment&comment=1251724'>More sharing options...
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