M8 or M7 or even M6?

[Nikkor AIS]

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You certainly don't need a digital for reportage:o. Thats just silly. Photojournalism has a long history of using film. And from my understanding the Leica M system was used by people to take news worthy images from the very beginning. It's all about the image not what media the image was taken with. Now in saying that, the M9 has some serious issues in the fact that it "freezes" after taking as little as a 10 images in 30 seconds which is not blasting by any stretch of the imagination. Where as my M3/M6 can be fired in rapid succession for 37 images in a row. The moment wont wait as my camera is "thinking".

 

Gregory

 

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[bussta]

Thanks Gregory, the last time I used the M8 it actually froze up on me when shooting in continuous mode and went crazy shooting frame after frame in manic sucession, had to turn it off and back on again so must beca leica digital issue with continous shooting. I think I need to save up for that M7 and build up an army of lenses so that if I decide to go full frame digital in the future then have the correct focal lengths to match.

[kivis]

Since I have not saved up near enough money for an M9, I have stayed with film.

M7 w/ 35-90 lenses and BW film

Nikon FM3A w/ 40-85 lenses and color film.

[sdh]

I decided to get an M6 - but my decision was easy because I already had a Coolscan 4000 scanner. My current workflow consists of shooting Fuji (Kodak seems to have vanished from the shelves), taking it to Walmart for development (Walmart charges US$1.76 to develop a full roll - no prints - and has it back to you in as little as 10 minutes - extraordinary), and then spend about two hours scanning the roll. The workflow is thus only slightly more time consuming than true digital and is a whole lot cheaper. Will I get an M9 - yes - but I'm happy with my "stopgap" solution for now.

[menos I M6]

I was curios about Leica M and bought a M6 + 50 Summilux ASPH some month ago as my first rangefinder. After a few weeks, the M6 pretty much put my Nikon SLRs into a forgotten box and took over completely.

 

A few days ago, I started, to sell off the unused Nikon AF lenses and even think about getting rid of another DSLR body, which I cannot remember, when I used it the last time (a barely used D300 + accessory).

 

I was curios about digital RF and got for rather small money a used EPSON R-D1. Latest since I use the R-D1 mainly, rangefinder cameras hooked me completely.

 

I started to buy some more Leica lenses and think now about getting another body (a black user M6 for another film speed). Digital though is tempting with the latest M8 used prices.

 

The issue about the M8 is, it won't give me bigger prints and no better prints than 35mm scans or the 12MP Nikon files, I am used to (although I am curious about the missing AA filter experience).

 

If money is a question, there is no way around a nicely used M6 and the best of Leica lenses, you can afford now. This anyway should be your priority no. 1 in the first place. Just get one lens first, the best, you can pay for in your favorite focal length - you will be hooked for sure.

 

Don't be afraid of the "missing" AE mode on the manual M6. I used mainly my D3 with some automation before the M6 (auto ISO, autofocus, matrix metering mainly).

The transition to the M6 and warm up time was absolutely fluent. I feel uncomfortable with some auto modes with the D3 now ;-)

 

Only after using the M6 did I learn to "read the light" and think in exposure values, when judging a nicely lit scene (even without a camera). I am still stumped, that it is really easy to judge exposure without a meter and being not more than a stop off, while some camera manufacturers make a big fuzz about their supercomputer all digitals Matrix metering systems.

 

An auto camera (even my FM3a) encourages you, to leave your brain in the camera bag and just let the camera handle it for you, which is not necessarily a good thing.

 

Good luck with your decision.

[Nikkor AIS]

Great first post Menos . Welcome to the forum. Im glad to see Im not the only Nikon shoter who also loves the M film system.

 

Gregory

 

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[bussta]

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I was curios about Leica M and bought a M6 + 50 Summilux ASPH some month ago as my first rangefinder. After a few weeks, the M6 pretty much put my Nikon SLRs into a forgotten box and took over completely.

 

A few days ago, I started, to sell off the unused Nikon AF lenses and even think about getting rid of another DSLR body, which I cannot remember, when I used it the last time (a barely used D300 + accessory).

 

I was curios about digital RF and got for rather small money a used EPSON R-D1. Latest since I use the R-D1 mainly, rangefinder cameras hooked me completely.

 

I started to buy some more Leica lenses and think now about getting another body (a black user M6 for another film speed). Digital though is tempting with the latest M8 used prices.

 

The issue about the M8 is, it won't give me bigger prints and no better prints than 35mm scans or the 12MP Nikon files, I am used to (although I am curious about the missing AA filter experience).

 

If money is a question, there is no way around a nicely used M6 and the best of Leica lenses, you can afford now. This anyway should be your priority no. 1 in the first place. Just get one lens first, the best, you can pay for in your favorite focal length - you will be hooked for sure.

 

Don't be afraid of the "missing" AE mode on the manual M6. I used mainly my D3 with some automation before the M6 (auto ISO, autofocus, matrix metering mainly).

The transition to the M6 and warm up time was absolutely fluent. I feel uncomfortable with some auto modes with the D3 now ;-)

 

Only after using the M6 did I learn to "read the light" and think in exposure values, when judging a nicely lit scene (even without a camera). I am still stumped, that it is really easy to judge exposure without a meter and being not more than a stop off, while some camera manufacturers make a big fuzz about their supercomputer all digitals Matrix metering systems.

 

An auto camera (even my FM3a) encourages you, to leave your brain in the camera bag and just let the camera handle it for you, which is not necessarily a good thing.

 

Good luck with your decision.

 

 

Thanks Menos, your post is very inspiring!

[weaselpanheadcamera]

Do I need a digital M8?

 

For years now i have literally been thinking of Leica cameras every day, visiting this site on a regular basis drooling over the images I see here and those lucky enough to own a real Leica M.

 

My issue is that I can't even think about affording a M9, so next best thing would be the M8.2 in digital terms, I borrowed one from a friend a while back and took some shots of which I posted here, I enjoyed using it, being seen with it the whole Leica experience, but had to give it back (

 

Now i've caught the bug and want one of my own. I could either save up and buy a used M8.2 or go the opposite direction and get a M7 or even back to a M6. I like the automation of the M7 but the one thing that holds me back is the the fact that its not digital.

 

Going down the film M route:

 

Financially I would have to fork out for the camera & lens, then a Suitable scanner, be it Epson flat bed or dedicated 35m scanner, then film, the processing costs, it all adds up

 

Going down the M8.2 digital route:

 

I would be buying an obsolete camera that's very electronic and relies a lot on circuitry and electronics, need UV filters for lenses and has the crop factor issue, how long will the camera last and be usable? in the long term?

 

what makes me think of the M7 apart from the marginally cheaper price is that I have a little Lomo that I took to NYC and took some pics that I was really happy with, mainly because I was conscious on the number of frames I shot so took my time in selecting the right moment, also that little waiting game to see the final product. This makes me think i'll enjoy the actual process of taking pictures more than chimping every minute at the back of a digital camera.

 

For me I would use it primarily for personal use, but also for work shooting reportage "behind the scenes" images on the cover shoots I art direct for the magazine I work on. Print wise suppose the pargest I would print to would be A3, would a good 35mm neg scan hold up well at this size compared to that of a M8 file?

 

The immediacy of digital appeals to me from a PP angle and from the ability to instantly change ISO on the fly which you can not do on the M7, it would mean planning what speed film I want t use before shooting.

 

How easy is it to PP scanned negs? compared to Raw files, do Raw files ultimately hold more information and provide more latitude in correcting errors in capture?

 

Decisions decisions decisions

 

Your input would be greatly received

[Guest Bernd Banken]

Bussta,

 

no word from your side about experiences in analog film processing.

Even you will use XP2 or BW400 the chromatic b/w films have a steep curve in learning how to make scans.

 

My hint would be to jump direct into digital.

 

I like b/w since more than 40 years but to start from now on fresh - a no go.....

 

Bernd

[cheewai_m6]

Only after using the M6 did I learn to "read the light" and think in exposure values, when judging a nicely lit scene (even without a camera). I am still stumped, that it is really easy to judge exposure without a meter and being not more than a stop off, while some camera manufacturers make a big fuzz about their supercomputer all digitals Matrix metering systems.

 

An auto camera (even my FM3a) encourages you, to leave your brain in the camera bag and just let the camera handle it for you, which is not necessarily a good thing.

 

Good luck with your decision.

 

i agree. i started with nikon fm2, didn't really look at the light meter much and learnt to judge exposure by eye. i went away from film for a few years to dslrs, and coming back to the m6 classic, i find i can still judge the exposure, if i'm off, it's usually no more than 1 stop off. i'm happy learning the basics stays with you forever.

 

to the OP. m8 is a bit of a no go zone in my opinion. not full frame, buying IR filters, and so many reported bugs with the camera. i was considering it, but common sense says it's not a good option. M7, well i've read a lot of stories about users constantly sending their's back to solms for repair, and it never really gets fixed. i'm sure there are reliable m7s out there and many users will testify saying they're reliable. but, i would not be happy to pick up a dud one.

 

i'd go m6 classic, or even the older models personally. i also like the shutter dial turning the traditional way.

[Nikkor AIS]

 

Taken with a Leica M7 and a 28 1.9 Voigtlander ASPH on XP2

 

 

Taken with Leica M7 15 Voigtlander on XP2

 

 

 

 

Taken with Leica M6 and 28 1.9 Voigtlander ASPH on XP2

 

The best way to learn how to swim is get in the water. Get an M camera, "any" M camera and a box 50 rolls of XP2. Get out there and shoot. make mistakes, have some fun. After over 20 years in photography these little leica M camera's have inspired me in ways I can not express in words. I still carry my Nikon D3 , however I "always" have a Leica M camera along side. There just so damn much fun to use carry, handle, hold. And the results are not bad either .

 

Gregory

[Nikkor AIS]

 

Taken on Leica M7 with 15 Voightlander on Ektar 100

 

 

 

Taken with Leica M3 and 35 1.4 Summilux on Ektar 100

 

Taken with Leica M3 and 21 Super Angulon on Ektar 100

[Nikkor AIS]

 

Taken with Leica m7 and 50 1.0 Noctilux @ 1.0 at 1/60 second on XP2

 

 

 

Taken with Leica M3 and a 35 1.4 summilux on XP2

 

 

Taken with Leica M7 and 35 1.4 summilux on XP2 30 seconds @f8/11

 

I really think film is the way to start off learning the M system. I started off buying a M3 to tide me over until I could get a M9, now I could care a less about getting a Leica M9. Im having so much fun with the Film M's. The other thing is I managed to buy three bodies and and 4 lenses for much less than a M9. Sure film is expensive. But so are hard drives and computers and softwear ...OO with digital the soft cost really add up. Like I said since getting my Lecia M3 a couple months ago Iv been shooting way more and really been having more fun with my photography than I can remember in some time. Like I said come in the water is great.

 

Gregory

[k_g_wolf ✝]

>> Gregory

 

 

Great shots !

 

Thx for posting your experience.

 

 

Best

 

GEORG

[Nikkor AIS]

Thanks for the kind words. Here are a couple more.

 

 

Taken with a Leica M3 and a Noctilux 50 1.0 @F 1.0 with B+W ND filter on XP2

 

 

Taken with Leica M6 on a 15 Voigtlander on XP2

 

So Im shooting A Nikon system right along side the Leica M system. I must say that Iv trimmed down my Nikon gear i bring with me but the leica gear seems to be multiplying:).

The instant satisfaction is nice but getting the film done is like opening presents at christmas. In truth I think that shooting both film/digital is the best of both worlds.

 

Gregory

[Xmas]

(although I am curious about the missing AA filter experience).

 

I think that leaves you the option of applying 'it' in your PC, otherwise you get what the camera thinks you needed... I think this is important.

 

Some people like the option.

 

I prefer M2 and M3s... but each of us is different.

 

Noel

[Guest Bernd Banken]

Gregory, excellent shots! But now the other side of the coin: What kind of scanner are you using to get the frames on to the hd?

 

Bernd

[Nikkor AIS]

Thanks for the kind words Bernd. The other side of the coin is..., I would like to tell you I was using my Nikon 5000 Ed scanner but that is hooked up to my P.C which at the moment is so stuffed full of images it's like me after gorging myself at thanks giving with turkey. So these scans are just done at my local superstore .

 

 

Taken with Lecia M6 on a 35 1.4 Summilux on Ektar film 2 @1.4

 

 

Taken with Leica M7 with 50 1.0 Noctilux @1.0 with B+W ND filter on Ektar film

[jsrockit]

I say go for the cheapest M8 you can find unless you have your own wet darkroom. If your images are going to ultimately end up in the computer anyway, I find digital to be more convenient. Sure, films have a special look, grain, color, etc that digital doesn't emulate perfectly, but if you have been dabbling in digital at all, then you've come to rely on the LCD and stuff like that. The LCD has allowed me to improve upon my shots in real time. With film, I have the tendency to think every shot I take is great. The LCD has allowed me to realize that it isn't the case and to get a better shot right away, not only after developement. Also, the digital workflow is great for the DIY type since you can do it in any room (unlike a wet darkroom). While I'm in love with digital, I still do use film at times... but in these days and times, I'd go digital first, film second. Not all labs are equal either and I've had my share of horrible scans and developement from many labs.

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[jsrockit]

As the proud, relatively new owner of an M8, I would strongly recommend it. A used M8 goes for under 3000 USD and is an exquisite piece of machinery. Pair that with a 50mm Summicron or Summilux (depending on your budget) and you have a great starting combo. From there you can expand your lens set or upgrade to an M9.

 

I agree... The M8 goes for just above $2000 these days and I would say that a 35mm lens would be the better starter than the 50mm though due to the crop factor of the M8.