My feelings about the M9

[Fotomiguel]

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"I'm going for a long trip with my M8. I'm going to abandon my M9 for a month. It's too new and "for me" too delicate to risk it and I will feel free using my M8 carefree".

Miguel,

Take both with you

it is what I am going to do with my trip in Asia

I also bring my M7 (and my R8) in case....

 

I'm going to try the "Way of St. James" walking. So weight is going to be a problem. Also rain, humidity and cold weather.

Just the M8, 15CV, 28 elmarit, 50 cron, 4 batteries and the new and light M9 charger.

[Leitzmac]

Wow, I had no idea people were experiencing/had experienced such problems with their M8 and M9 bodies.

 

I use Canon digital SLR bodies and was amazed by the complications experienced with the 1D MK III which indicated a lack of thorough testing before release - it looked as if their drive to stay ahead of Nikon had superceded the importance of releasing products for professionals that were absolutely 'water tight'.

 

I thought, perhaps somewhat naively that Leica - though clearly a business that had to make money in the same way as the big boys - would maintain their modus operandi of producing high quality, utterly reliable products that people (professional photographers) could stake their livelihood on, but it seems they were not immune to the current dangerous preoccupation with appearing to be one step ahead - an obsession which seems to be placing incomplete and in some cases malfunctioning equipment in the hands of consumers.

 

I hope I am wrong and that these incidents are isolated, but I would rather have a camera that does what it is supposed to do straight out of the box, without needing repairs, constant firmware upgrades etc. even if it does take a little more time to get right.

 

Perhaps that's why the release of the S2 was pushed back? Did Leica encounter issues they had to comprehensively iron out because they realised they couldn't sell a camera at that price, aimed at top professionals which didn't do what it said 'on the tin'? Why not with the M9?

 

I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on this matter: We all love Leica lenses and cameras, but £4850 is a fair chunk of cash for a camera (M9), are we so besotted that we are prepared to overlook all the inadequacies even at that price?

[delander †]

I also think that Leica are making a far greater effort to iron out all the S2 bugs before the camera is released. Imagine the nightmare for those who bought the S2 but did not stump up for the extra repair packages. For the money even wothout any extra package they will expect the camera to be sorted out or replaced at Leica's cost instantly.

 

I'm also surprised that Leica did not notice the red colouration on the LHS of images when using wide angle lenses, a few days of use by 'real customers' and it was 'discovered'. Just like the IR issue with the M8.

 

Perhaps Leica should give their beta cameras to the more critical users, quite a few can be found on this and other forums.

 

Jeff

[coup de foudre]

What a shame that this thread which up to this point has been well argued has descended into this... perhaps a friendly moderator can close it up now?

before it is, biglouis, i just want to thank you for your comments and the many excellent points that were brought up. it's a wonderful read and plenty to chew over....

 

it's been fascinating to read what is or is not important to various shooters!

 

cheers,

cam

[jaapv]

I remember when the M8 came three years ago. The forum was crazy. Many members asked and complained about the features and problems of the M8. Some of us adapted ourself to the camera trying to take the most of it and we've had a wonderfull time plenty of fun. Now the M9 is here with all the features that Rangefinder lovers have asked during this three years. The camera is not expensive at all if you think what you have in your hands: the best camera possible in so tiny size hitting closely the best Dlsr. And you can use the best lenses ever made.

I'm just going to enjoy this camera trying to learn and to get the most of it. I'm still not happy with my results. My M9+50mm cron is going to be great but we have to get used each other. I'm going for a long trip with my M8. I'm going to abandon my M9 for a month. It's too new and "for me" too delicate to risk it and I will feel free using my M8 carefree. When I'll come back, I will try just to enjoy the M9 as it is. Of course everything could be better but if you think how great photographers worked many years ago and the pictures they got...

No more excuses. We have an incredible tool and the rest depends of our ability.

I took it for five weeks through Africa - I took my M8u "just in case" The M8 only got used for a few IR shots..

[Leitzmac]

What a shame that this thread which up to this point has been well argued has descended into this... perhaps a friendly moderator can close it up now?

 

I have learnt a great deal from this thread and hope to learn more, additionally I can see I'm not the only one who has appreciated it. Can I humbly request this thread not be canned just yet, moderators?!

[Leitzmac]

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before it is, biglouis, i just want to thank you for your comments and the many excellent points that were brought up. it's a wonderful read and plenty to chew over....

 

it's been fascinating to read what is or is not important to various shooters!

 

cheers,

cam

 

 

Couldn't agree more! I feel hugely fortunate to have a forum allowing me access to such varied knowledge and experience.

[Leitzmac]

 

Perhaps Leica should give their beta cameras to the more critical users, quite a few can be found on this and other forums.

 

Jeff

 

 

Too true - it seems many users on here have got to grips with the cameras and their nuances in short order. There is a pool of experience, talent and technical understanding here, Leica might be wise to take a dip as such is the commitment forum members have towards the company I'm sure there are many who would rigorously test and give their feedback for free.

[Doc Henry]

Too much cameras for your trip in Asia

Hi Dany,

I had had a bad memory when i was in the Laos in humanitarian mission and with the single taken camera, the battery was out of order (it's however new : the reason ?)

Result : no photos

if i had one or two other cameras on me , i will have my photos!

since i always bring at least 2 - 3 cameras with me

Kind regards

Henry

[jonoslack]

 

I'm also surprised that Leica did not notice the red colouration on the LHS of images when using wide angle lenses, a few days of use by 'real customers' and it was 'discovered'. Just like the IR issue with the M8.

 

Perhaps Leica should give their beta cameras to the more critical users, quite a few can be found on this and other forums.

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff

as one of a number of testers, I feel obliged to defend us a little: It's easy to be wise after the event (in my defence, I didn't have the 18 SE lens in my arsenal, and it's really not obvious in any of the lenses I do have).

As far as the IR issue is concerned - that's old history.

 

This time there was a lot of testing going on, by a lot of people. I'd also say that this issue took around a month after release to surface (the red left issue) - it isn't something one was naturally looking for (although, perhaps I should have thought of it, as it was an issue with the old Kodak 14n which I was also involved with). A month after release represents a lot of shots with a lot of released cameras!

 

The things that slip through are those which you aren't looking for. The things that were found, are, of course, unknown, as they were fixed

[Doc Henry]

I'm going to try the "Way of St. James" walking. So weight is going to be a problem. Also rain, humidity and cold weather.

Just the M8, 15CV, 28 elmarit, 50 cron, 4 batteries and the new and light M9 charger.

Hi Miguel,

As i have just said to Dany, i have perhaps more chance than you , we go in general in mission to villages, with one 4x4 of the Ministry of Health or the Red Cross and i have no problem with the weight , except an apprehension of batteries if they are out of order...

... humidity and electronics are hardly compatible

Best regards

Henry

[andybarton]

 

Dude, just stop bitching just because you can't justify an M9. The M8 is a great camera, I still have a custom one made for me and it is great for what it is but don't kid yourself brother, the M9 is in a different league so don't knock it just because you can't have one or won't pull the trigger on one....just stop because it sounds childish.

 

~allaboutglass

 

Louis isn't bitching about the M9, nor specificallly knocking it. He has explained clearly why it's just not for him. Doesn't mean it's not a great camera, which I am sure it is.

 

Accusing people of bitching, when they are not, isn't helpful and is actually pretty rude to the original poster. I am sure that wasn't your intention.

[wizard]

Having read Louis initial post, well, that is certainly one view of seeing things. As a longtime M camera user, a Leica M3 was in fact my first 'real' camera back in 1973, I adopt a different view nevertheless. I have never looked at the M8 or M8.2, it just didn't intrigue me with its crop sensor and filter issues.

 

The M9, however, is a different kind of camera. It is an M Leica in its true sense, meaning I could use my lenses in exactly the same way as I am used to (I am seeing potential shots associated with a certain focal length, that is I see and know this shot takes a 35mm or 90mm lens, for example), and I do not have to use the dreaded IR filters either. I recently had a chance to play and shoot with an M9 extensively, and must say it handles just so naturally 'M' and is so quiet and smooth in operation it makes you forget you are using a digital camera. And that is about as high a compliment I can personally make about digital cameras. I cannot care less about noise at high ISO or some other nitpicking, the image quality an M9 is able to deliver will easily exceed all my needs as an amateur (I rarely print my shots bigger than 2 x 3m ). Suffice to say that if were looking for a digital camera (which I am not at present) the M9 would be it, period. And I am very, very glad Leica finally managed to launch such a product, as it is paramount to keeping the M-system alive for the foreseeable future. Expensive? Well, the M8 wasn't cheap either, and I would rather spend that kind of money on an M9 than an M8 (which sure is a fine camera, too).

 

Just my two cents.

 

Andy

[Guest EarlBurrellPhoto]

I must confess the improvements you mention would not be exciting enough for me to upgrade from the M9.

 

I'm bookmarking that statement. Look forward to seeing it requoted when the next version is announced next year and you're again one of the first to own one

[jonoslack]

I'm bookmarking that statement. Look forward to seeing it requoted when the next version is announced next year and you're again one of the first to own one

 

Stick me on that list as well . . . . and while you're keeping records, When they install an IR/UV ON option in the menus - I'll eat my hat . . .actually, I'll eat ALL my hats!

 

Mind you, if they offer a sapphire glass and framelines upgrade as they did on the M8, (rather than having to buy a new camera), I think I'd go for that.

[jaapv]

I'm bookmarking that statement. Look forward to seeing it requoted when the next version is announced next year and you're again one of the first to own one

I couldn't use the thing, being dead; my bank manager would strangle me, aided by my wife....

[zlatkob]

Perhaps Leica should give their beta cameras to the more critical users, quite a few can be found on this and other forums.

I don't know who gets the beta cameras, but I believe beta cameras should go to the most demanding and critical full-time photographers, some of whom work in rough conditions, (including even those who had harsh remarks about the original M8). They'll push the cameras to their limits and they won't tolerate some things that others will. Their feedback would be invaluable. If beta cameras can meet their needs, then they'll surely pass for family & vacation pics.

[Peter Lea]

I found Big Louis's comments very interesting, and I think it's a valid point of view - even though I don't happen to share it. I have found using a 24mm F2.8 as a "standard" lens on an M8 somewhat restricting, while my beloved 35mm F1.4 has sat in my case, almost unused. I too look forward to using my wide-angles at the length for which they were designed. The extra speed is a help, too.

Peter Lea

[danyves]

Hi Dany,

I had had a bad memory when i was in the Laos in humanitarian mission and with the single taken camera, the battery was out of order (it's however new : the reason ?)

Result : no photos

if i had one or two other cameras on me , i will have my photos!

since i always bring at least 2 - 3 cameras with me

Kind regards

Henry

 

Well, when on films I alwyays had 3 M4s and a M3, so I do understant finally.

 

Just that you cannot switch R lenses to the M8 or M lense to Leica R.

 

Have a good photographic travel.

 

Best,

 

Daniel

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Rolo]

I don't know who gets the beta cameras, but I believe beta cameras should go to the most demanding and critical full-time photographers, some of whom work in rough conditions, (including even those who had harsh remarks about the original M8). They'll push the cameras to their limits and they won't tolerate some things that others will. Their feedback would be invaluable. If beta cameras can meet their needs, then they'll surely pass for family & vacation pics.

 

I agree, but I think that's Leica's job. Beta testers should be for confirmation only and they only see it in the run-up to the launch.

 

When I bought a Hasselblad CFV digital back, I asked the company if it would be stupid to carry it in a motorcycle pannier on less than perfect roads? Their answer was "don't hesitate, we've tested it for thousands of hours in off-road conditions. It works". It did.

 

Our fear, I suppose, is that the simplest testing hasn't been done - ie white balance, lines, focus, winder noise. I'm trusting that we're well past that now. Fingers crossed.