250swb Posted November 15, 2009 Share #41 Posted November 15, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) You assume right Oh I see, those easy to use German roads that go to the coast and other countries directly through Holland. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 15, 2009 Posted November 15, 2009 Hi 250swb, Take a look here image stabilization for M anytime soon?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
viramati Posted November 15, 2009 Share #42 Posted November 15, 2009 Imagine what IS would do to an already short battery life!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokkacream Posted November 15, 2009 Share #43 Posted November 15, 2009 Not likely, Scott. Most systems work within the lens, and that is a no-go for M lenses and Leica is not charmed by the imprecision introduced by the moving parts. Agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrikft Posted November 15, 2009 Share #44 Posted November 15, 2009 I feel the luddite crew coming on again.. If IS can be introduced without making the camera larger and with the possibility to turn it off for those who don't want the battery drain, what is the problem? some prercieved notion that the sensor will misalign itself magically? It seems like leica have misaligned sensor problems with static sensors too, so I would not really put much weight behind such an argument. The delusion that IS works only on long teles is.. a delusion. It works great on shorter lenses too, not as effectively, but gives 1-2 stops of handholdability. I don't see how this is problematic. If you want to use a tripod? great, if you want to get blur? great... but why impose that on those who do not want it ? The great slippery slope fallacy of "if you add IS and live-view, the M10 will be a HUGE slr!!!" just.. does... not... work... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
okram Posted November 15, 2009 Share #45 Posted November 15, 2009 I feel the luddite crew coming on again.. If IS can be introduced without making the camera larger and with the possibility to turn it off for those who don't want the battery drain, what is the problem? some prercieved notion that the sensor will misalign itself magically? It seems like leica have misaligned sensor problems with static sensors too, so I would not really put much weight behind such an argument. The delusion that IS works only on long teles is.. a delusion. It works great on shorter lenses too, not as effectively, but gives 1-2 stops of handholdability. I don't see how this is problematic. If you want to use a tripod? great, if you want to get blur? great... but why impose that on those who do not want it ? The great slippery slope fallacy of "if you add IS and live-view, the M10 will be a HUGE slr!!!" just.. does... not... work... I agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthman_1 Posted November 15, 2009 Share #46 Posted November 15, 2009 I feel the luddite crew coming on again.. If IS can be introduced without making the camera larger and with the possibility to turn it off for those who don't want the battery drain, what is the problem? some prercieved notion that the sensor will misalign itself magically? It seems like leica have misaligned sensor problems with static sensors too, so I would not really put much weight behind such an argument. The delusion that IS works only on long teles is.. a delusion. It works great on shorter lenses too, not as effectively, but gives 1-2 stops of handholdability. I don't see how this is problematic.... The great slippery slope fallacy of "if you add IS and live-view, the M10 will be a HUGE slr!!!" just.. does... not... work... IS is on short focal length pro-sumer zooms with f3.5 and f4 apertures. A Lux already gives you three stops over those, add another stop + for no mirror slap. The flagship is about ISO, shutter speed, and aperture, nothing else gets in the way of the photographer. You get no gadgets to distract you from picture taking. Nearly all who've come to Leica from SLRs/DSLRs find that an alluring piece of the cameras magic. There is no need to turn the camera into every other camera in the world. Look, I love the fact that if I don't chimp, I can get 3000+ shots on a D3 battery and I've shot 1500+ shots in a day, but I have no idea, and I hope the digital M doesn't change this, how I'd ever drain a battery (400 shots) on an M in one day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garygsandhu Posted November 15, 2009 Share #47 Posted November 15, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) urlkift: "I feel the luddite crew coming on again.. :P" Why call 'em Luddites because you don't understand? :-) Go get a digital SLR if you crave IS and all that and let those that want a refined and elegant tool for taking photos have the M as it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrikft Posted November 15, 2009 Share #48 Posted November 15, 2009 IS is on short focal length pro-sumer zooms with f3.5 and f4 apertures. A Lux already gives you three stops over those, add another stop + for no mirror slap. The flagship is about ISO, shutter speed, and aperture, nothing else gets in the way of the photographer. You get no gadgets to distract you from picture taking. Nearly all who've come to Leica from SLRs/DSLRs find that an alluring piece of the cameras magic. There is no need to turn the camera into every other camera in the world. Look, I love the fact that if I don't chimp, I can get 3000+ shots on a D3 battery and I've shot 1500+ shots in a day, but I have no idea, and I hope the digital M doesn't change this, how I'd ever drain a battery (400 shots) on an M in one day. 1) I get f/1.2 and can handhold my d700 as slow as the M9, this goes for all tests I have seen that aren't extremely biased. The mirror slap interferes in one special shutter speed range, and even there, it is far from one stop. 2) IS do not "get in your way". Either you turn it on or turn it off. 3) "If you add IS it is every other camera in the world" is a logical fallacy, a bad one at that. Could you guys please at least try to be a bit honest in these discussions? "refined and elegant tool"... seriously? .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthman_1 Posted November 15, 2009 Share #49 Posted November 15, 2009 Well enjoy your D700 then. ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted November 15, 2009 Share #50 Posted November 15, 2009 Tool designers make tools. Artisans use tools. Craftsmen choose the appropriate tool for their craft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted November 15, 2009 Share #51 Posted November 15, 2009 I don't get this discussion. If Leica could fit IS in the next M, SURE THING I will take it, this morning I was shooting rail-cars wishing I had brought my tripod... if I can get 1 stop more handheld with a noctilux.. God bless them and lets get it. But Im not shocked its not included right now and I am not changing my opinion about any M camera because it is or is not included. It seems the original question were, will it happen anytime soon.? don't know myself, thats for sure... maybe some optical geek in Germany is working on it right now. I don't know or care.. I love my cameras and that is what matters. Sorry, I don't want a DSLR, I have one, and it have IS, all I am saying is, IF they stuff it in my M, sure I will probably use it. They already stuffed lots of horrible new-fangled things in there, eventually we will probably embrace IS as a very leica like thing. Long ago, no Leica file would think to use Auto exposure... what a ungodly thing. Wait... auto wind for film.. yikes... no film winder for the thumb.. Oh no... Soo just my 2 cents. I still don't really understand the argument going on here. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 15, 2009 Share #52 Posted November 15, 2009 A question to consider is would the addition of an IS mechanism compromise the image quality of the the M even if IS wasn't in use given the engineering tolerances involved? Also 'Luddite' now seem to have replaced 'Fanboy' as the preferred term of abuse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garygsandhu Posted November 15, 2009 Share #53 Posted November 15, 2009 Yes, the M is a refined and elegant tool, (unfortunately) the film M more than the digital M. And having IS will get in the way: the photographer will have to decide whether to turn it on or off, and which mode it's in (panning or not? On a tripod? Preview stabilization, or as the shutter release is pressed? And one more menu selection or switch to double check.) it's nice that the M is different, just like people. Micro 4/3 cameras with in body IS should satisfy those wanting IS with their Leica lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrikft Posted November 15, 2009 Share #54 Posted November 15, 2009 Well enjoy your D700 then. ;-) What kind of kindergarden argument is this? I love my d700, it is amazing for what it's good at. That does not mean that I won't get a M9 down the line. But if Sony and Zeiss were to combine a live view/IS sensor in a ikon-body.. I would not jump for leica, to put it like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffwros Posted November 15, 2009 Share #55 Posted November 15, 2009 The less coffee I drink the more IS I have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthman_1 Posted November 15, 2009 Share #56 Posted November 15, 2009 Live View + IS? Good god! I'm thinking more and more when I get my M9 I'm gloing to put electrical tape over the entire LCD! Ikon with IS? What good is IS if your rangefinder is never in alighnment..."it woud have been a great photo, I shot it at four seconds off a Harley, but my RF is crap...." sob.;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrikft Posted November 15, 2009 Share #57 Posted November 15, 2009 Live View + IS? Good god! I'm thinking more and more when I get my M9 I'm gloing to put electrical tape over the entire LCD! Ikon with IS? What good is IS if your rangefinder is never in alighnment..."it woud have been a great photo, I shot it at four seconds off a Harley, but my RF is crap...." sob.;-) I know more leica RFs being out of alignment than Zeiss ones.. So.. well... and that laaaarge, briiight viewfinder... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 15, 2009 Share #58 Posted November 15, 2009 That didn't hold true in the film days, and the RF is still the same. Let's wait for the Zeiss DRF before comparing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthman_1 Posted November 16, 2009 Share #59 Posted November 16, 2009 I admit it, you win! Cosina has made Zero, Zippo, Zilch, yep not a one, ZI DRF with a RF alignment problem. Now if you want to talk about film on the other hand, go to the RFF forum and check a few threads...heck I'll send you mine for $1000USD and it's as new, except for that little rangefinder issue. Tomorrow I'm sending my M9 case back to Luigi to have him sew the LCD drop down cover shut... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 16, 2009 Share #60 Posted November 16, 2009 Go get a digital SLR if you crave IS This is assuming that image stabilization was somehow linked to DSLRs, which of course it isn’t. IS can be used with any kind of camera; that right now there is no rangefinder camera with IS is merely incidental. When Leica cannot offer IS as an option just yet this doesn’t imply such an option would be useless or that we will never see IS in a Leica M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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