Proof of concept regarding self coding of lenses

[carstenw]

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The Noct has pretty heavy vignetting wide open, at least on a film camera. I wonder how bad it is in the M8? What does it look like with the recognition turned off and on?

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[carstenw]

About those "inferior" lenses... The CV 28/1.9 Ultron shows less vignetting at wide apertures than either the asph. 28 Summicron or the asph. 28 Elmarit (based on real tests). As such, the vignetting correction for the Summicron may slightly over-correct the Ultron. There are other examples but I'd urge us to make coding associations based on actual information rather than any preconceptions (that is, if we want them to be useful). Demonstrated performance can sometimes differ from the myths. I'm going to keep demonstrating actual performance in lens reviews and hopefully people will get a better sense of these other lenses.

 

Thanks for all your work on the coding page Carsten.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

With "inferior" I didn't mean any of the excellent recent Zeiss or Voigtländer lenses, but rather some of the older, more flawed lenses, which would still have their cos^4 vignetting removed.

[carstenw]

Why would you want to code a lens longer than 35 mm? It's unlikely to need it. Maybe the 40s but probably not. The cyan drift is already quite mild at 35 mm (according to my tests) and that's the upper limit that Leica has officially announced for "recommended coding". I probably wouldn't bother coding anything longer than a 35. The longer lenses, thankfully, should only need the filter. Vignetting for the 40s and up shouldn't be an issue either. In fact, it's hardly an issue with most 35s.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Well... there is EXIF...

[carstenw]

Hiya,

 

That's coming along very well. I don't know about you, but when I mark the lenses, I have notches cut in my plastic template and so I work with the "coding" area closest to me. If that's the way that many are working, it might be helpful to flip those pictures over and also allow them to be clicked to larger versions.

 

Best,

 

Sean

 

So far I count two people who want this. I will watch and if it seems popular enough, I will add that. I may just add it anyway, but I am wary of the table becoming too large.

[cmb_]

Carsten

 

I just sent you an email re: coding.

[sean_reid]

Thanks Chet, that make sense. So it looks like you guys have saved me $250.00. Now I'd like to see what Sean has up his sleeves regarding the CV mount for my 28mm 1.9.

 

I'm waiting to get test copies of LTM adapters that don't have the cutout. BTW, I wouldn't bother coding anything longer than a 35 although, as Carsten points out, there is the EXIF info.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

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Well... there is EXIF...

 

Yup, that's true. I suppose that could be handy.

 

Cheers,

 

S

[cme4brain]

I'm waiting to get test copies of LTM adapters that don't have the cutout. BTW, I wouldn't bother coding anything longer than a 35 although, as Carsten points out, there is the EXIF info.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Has anyone tried to "sharpie- code" non-Leica LTM lenses using the current "M" adapter rings that have the cut out region (unfortunately at the LED reading area)? Perhaps if you mark the adapter ring as well as the underlying lens mount the M8 body will read the code. Are there any other types of LTM-to-M adapter rings without this cut out region and where do you get them?

[chrism]

Has anyone tried to "sharpie- code" non-Leica LTM lenses using the current "M" adapter rings that have the cut out region (unfortunately at the LED reading area)? Perhaps if you mark the adapter ring as well as the underlying lens mount the M8 body will read the code. Are there any other types of LTM-to-M adapter rings without this cut out region and where do you get them?

 

Somebody a few days ago (possibly Mark) showed some gaffer tape stuck under the cutout and marked with a code - it worked.

 

Chris

[dhoelscher]

 

. . . BTW, I wouldn't bother coding anything longer than a 35 although, as Carsten points out, there is the EXIF info.

 

 

Perhaps you wouldn't bother UNLESS you cared about the in-camera JPEGs, which could be corrected for IR filter color shift, which WILL occur if you use a 486 filter (obviously NOT the cyan drift) by the camera selecting the IR profile (perhaps as of firmware 1.10) ...

 

DDH

[Riley]

im thinking that with an adapter, theres a problem because they fit different lenses

you could drill holes and insert black or white plugs

sort of custom coding for several lens that fit that adapter

holes could be through the base or the side

 

alternately, milled out area on the base, and a slip in plate with the code on it

 

Riley

[sean_reid]

Just got a set of the old style Leitz adapters here. They don't have the notch. Haven't been able to code and test yet but I have several 90s (9 cm) for the LTM 28s and a 135 (for the LTM 35s).

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[wparsonsgisnet]

I can't presume to think or speak for Leica, but it makes a lot of sense for Zeiss and CV to code their lenses, and for Leica to share the scheme.

 

This kind of cooperation sells more of everything for everybody. As an example, when Philips invented the cassette tape format, they shared the tape design. This allowed ALL the electronics manufacturers to use the tape design and made the market immense. I still use cassettes, mastered on high-quality decks.

 

When Sony shut the door on licensing of their television tape encoding standard, the rest of the mfrs created the VHS standard -- and Sony's share of market went to zero.

 

Not seeming to have learned much, these same players are now fighting a battle to the death over Blu-ray vs DVD-A. You are seeing the result: no software to speak of, no meaningful purchases of product by consumers, and no standard.

 

A similar problem still exists in high definition TV broadcasting, precisely because there is no standard. And, ironically, in the US at least we have a government fiat that all television broadcasts will be digital by 2007 (I believe) while there is no standard for those broadcasts.

 

And the whiners are complaining about IR-sensitivity and cyan fringing. LOOK at the pictures. Gimme the camera.

 

Regards,

[edlbell]

We have been talking about the coding of these lenses and adjustments that the in camera software uses to correct for lens error.

 

We have also talked about having the in camera software be able to user select lenses.

 

Another suggestion is to add the feature of lens correction to either a plug-in for Photoshop, a profile for C1, or a user selectable option in either software.

 

The correction is obviously down with software, and an open enivornment for all to share would usher in a new era in digital photography.

 

Why not?

 

Ed

[Riley]

this facinating collaboration is as much in Leicas interests as it is the photographers

rather a different experience from other fora, were one straps on the body armour and fends off the assault

 

i have some issue with the complaints too

the only loose tooth left is the IR filters

and this because people suspect that screwing a filter on reduces sharpness

but where the results clearly belie this notion

 

but then, i didnt spend all that money on an M8 did i

money talks, bs walks

 

Riley

[sean_reid]

We have been talking about the coding of these lenses and adjustments that the in camera software uses to correct for lens error.

 

We have also talked about having the in camera software be able to user select lenses.

 

Another suggestion is to add the feature of lens correction to either a plug-in for Photoshop, a profile for C1, or a user selectable option in either software.

 

The correction is obviously down with software, and an open enivornment for all to share would usher in a new era in digital photography.

 

Why not?

 

Ed

 

Hi Ed,

 

It's a good idea and Bill Parsons, among others, has been advocating for it. My only reservation about it is that one must then remember (by sight) which picture was made with which lens. With the self-coded lenses that wouldn't be necessary.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[rvaubel]

Just got a set of the old style Leitz adapters here. They don't have the notch. Haven't been able to code and test yet but I have several 90s (9 cm) for the LTM 28s and a 135 (for the LTM 35s).

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sean

 

If you want to make coding easy, take an adapter without the notch and mill 6 spots where the code goes. These spots can be filled in with a black marker to simulate any Leica lens you want. You don't need any templates or skill to code the adapter. Also, since the coding would be recessed, it wouldn't wear of. And you could change the coding at will with a little marker solvent (acetone or alcohol)

 

Simple

 

Rex

[sean_reid]

Eureka! It works!

 

I just successfully coded a CV Ultron 35/1.7 as a Summicron 35/2.0 using an older Leitz 135 mm adapter. To my mind, this means the M8 is potentially open (for wide angle color work) to photographers who want to use LTM lenses (CV, Leica, Canon, etc.) That, I believe, will be good for M8 sales.

 

Needless to say, we still need to find matches between the characteristics of the actual lens and the lens the code is intended for but I believe those matches do exist. In fact, I'm coding based on what my tests are showing me about vignetting and cyan drift.

 

Here's how I think it would shake out for the CVs.

 

CV 21/4.0 - use older Leitz 28/90 adapter and code as older (1980-1997) 21 Elmarit. Do we know that code from Carsten's list? Anyone know it? The 28/90 frame lines are what the newest 21 Elmarit brings up.

 

CV 25/4.0 - use older Leitz 135 mm adapter and code as 24 Elmarit. I need one more of these Leitz 135 adapters. Anyone have one to loan or sell? If so, please PM me.

 

CV 28/3.5 - use older Leitz 28/90 adapter and code as 28/2.8 Elmarit Aspherical

 

CV 28/1.9 Ultron - use older Leitz 28/90 adapter and code as 28/2.0 Summicron *but* that may over-correct the vignetting because the Ultron vignettes less than the Summicron. This one lens may do better uncoded. I'll find out through tests when time allows.

 

CV 35/1.7 Ultron - use an older Leitz 135 mm adapter and code as a Summicron 35/2.0 (older version 1, version 2, aspherical? - we'll need to see) For now I'm coding for the newest version.

 

CV 35/2.5 Pancake II - no adapter, code as a Summicron 35/2.0 (older version 1, version 2, aspherical? - we'll need to see) For now I'm coding for the newest version.

 

CV 35/2.5 LTM - use an older Leitz 135 mm adapter and code as a Summicron 35/2.0 (older version 1, version 2, aspherical? - we'll need to see)

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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[sean_reid]

Sean

 

If you want to make coding easy, take an adapter without the notch and mill 6 spots where the code goes. These spots can be filled in with a black marker to simulate any Leica lens you want. You don't need any templates or skill to code the adapter. Also, since the coding would be recessed, it wouldn't wear of. And you could change the coding at will with a little marker solvent (acetone or alcohol)

 

Simple

 

Rex

 

Hi Rex,

 

Easy if one is a machinist. Down the road I'm going to speak with a good machinist friend. BTW, do you have machining skills? If so...

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[edlaurpic]

I must be doing something wrong or am not doing it carefully enough, but I have twice failed to get a modern 90 f/2 AA to show up as a 90 in the info screen after trying to do the coding with a sharpie.

 

I seem to have lost the posting with detailed instructions about how to do it. What I did in lieu of that was try to copy the markings on a new 90 f/4 macro elmar. My assumption is that this would at least bring up 90mm on the lcd after pressing the info button, but nothing appears on that menU (except the histogram and other info...no focal length).

 

Ithought it might be easier the first time just to copy the markings on another lens that I could have in my hands. Do you think I would have better luck using the template?