sean_reid Posted November 12, 2009 Share #161 Posted November 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry but I sorta hate flickr ( Irarely go there)so the link to flickr was because it was part of what I read and may have been useful to someone. Well that's it for me and the X1! crappy AF killed it for me ... it was such a cute dream , hope for a P&S 35mm all shattered and shatted will I ever get over it? f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 zero Yep .....................................next. Just ordinary AF for a compact camera. No better or worse than most cameras of that size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 Hi sean_reid, Take a look here The ricoh rival. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
daveleo Posted November 12, 2009 Share #162 Posted November 12, 2009 LOL!... why can somebody not make a digital Hexar? sigh. ..... only in my wildest dreams !!! (the D2 is the closest yet) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
comapedrosa Posted November 12, 2009 Share #163 Posted November 12, 2009 Oh, why don't the Camera Gods give us what we want? ...i smell a new camera manufacturer in the making... yet, there is no money in that market:( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted November 12, 2009 Share #164 Posted November 12, 2009 Oh, why don't the Camera Gods give us what we want? ( Maybe because 'we're' not the market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 12, 2009 Share #165 Posted November 12, 2009 f8 is an easy option............ Just ordinary AF for a compact camera.....but a extraordinary price for an ordinary performance............ ahh well I am sure leica has buyers other than photographers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 12, 2009 Share #166 Posted November 12, 2009 f8 is an easy option.................but a extraordinary price for an ordinary performance............ ahh well I am sure leica has buyers other than photographers It wouldn't make sense to pay $2000 just for that AF unit. But of course, there's much more to the puzzle of pros and cons in the X1. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 12, 2009 Share #167 Posted November 12, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) f8 is an easy option................ F/8 has been my good friend for years - on many lenses. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup de foudre Posted November 12, 2009 Share #168 Posted November 12, 2009 F/8 has been my good friend for years - on many lenses. Sean, Imants was defending f/8, saying that it has been his good friend as well. i'm the numbskull that prefers to shoot wide open on fast lenses -- for the separation and often times the speed. cheers, cam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 12, 2009 Share #169 Posted November 12, 2009 The problem is how much the cons drag the pros down ........... sure I am happy with f8 but most are not. They want a narrow DOF as well as speed of execution. I am sure I can get arounfdthe lag but at 2 grand of smackaroos maybe it isn't worth the grief Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 12, 2009 Share #170 Posted November 12, 2009 The problem is how much the cons drag the pros down ........... sure I am happy with f8 but most are not. They want a narrow DOF as well as speed of execution. I am sure I can get arounfdthe lag but at 2 grand of smackaroos maybe it isn't worth the grief That first question...that's always the question. About the full press lag: 1. It may be gone by the time the cameras are ready to ship. I'm in discussions with engineers already. 2. I find it very easy to use the half-press and do that naturally on cameras anyway. So, in my own work with the X1 I never noticed a shutter lag at all. BTW, I have no problem with the way the camera renders OOF at F/2.8 but that's a very subjective thing. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottocrat Posted November 12, 2009 Share #171 Posted November 12, 2009 Sean, one thing I was a little concerned by was the issue of battery life. Either you or Michael mentioned in your review that the camera ran out of juice fairly fast. Now forgive me if I'm wrong but wouldn't keeping the shutter in a state of readiness by holding the release half pressed mean much quicker battery depletion? By the way, I've been reading your comments in this and the other threads and I wanted firstly to say thanks for spending so much time clarifying things and answering questions, which is much appreciated, and secondly to agree with you when you say that one also needs to remember the positives about this camera. That said, I'm still very much in a quandary about this: lots to digest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenor1 Posted November 12, 2009 Share #172 Posted November 12, 2009 I want to second ottocrat's thanks to Sean. It seems words are highly scrutinized and easily taken out from the context of his actual intentions. The shutter-lag issue does seem interesting and makes me wonder about the cause. Leica should have made it perform above the standard of other P&S cameras. I've never been overly impressed with Leica battery life and wished they made a bigger one like the Canon G-10 uses. It lasts 3-4 times longer than the one used by the DL4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 13, 2009 Share #173 Posted November 13, 2009 If there are to be some tweaks ................. why give the half baked cameras to reviewers for "public review"? The we will fix it later maybe! is of no benifit. Or is it about warning the public that the product is only so so and not as exciting as the PR machine wants to make out............... it's all a bit shabby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted November 13, 2009 Share #174 Posted November 13, 2009 i just pulled my old Nikon F (inherited from my dad) off the shelf -- now THAT is a viewfinder! I love my Nikon F. Black, standard non-metered viewfinder..... it's perfect. On par with the M-series. if they used this space to bring back a proper OVF, i'd be ecstatic! sure it would cost more money but i, for one, would be willing to pay it. how much are companies charging for the new EVFs? $200? $300? as for space, i'd honestly accept a smaller screen and possibly larger body to get a decent OVF. and, yes, i'd also be willing to put my money where my mouth is and pay even more than the standard EVF or external VF from Leica/CV. perhaps some manufacturer will actually have the guts to make that an option one day. do they not realise that sight is kind of important in photography??? In light of the M43rd cameras (EP-1/2, GF1) and now the Ricoh Leica better pull their head out of their rear end and release a true digital CL. And I mean a real digital CL. Rangefinder (simplified), standard M mount, APS-C sensor, framelines for 28/35/50/90 (equivalent) and a set of reasonably priced APS-C lenses. Basically take a CL and stick a sensor in it. Price it at $2000-2500. But unfortunately it will be a very cold day in Solms, before that happens. Currently Leica's solution is for you to buy a used digital M camera, if you can't swing the M9. Who on earth is going to buy a digital camera that is several years old? Would you buy a 5 year old computer for $2000-3000? That theory may have worked with a used film body, but is no longer valid with digital. And how does this put money in Leica's pocket? With a roll of Tri-X and the same lens my M2 produces the same image, as a modern MP. The M8 does not produce the same quality, as an M9 or any future M body. So, in light of that Leica has a $2000 point and shoot and still no serious entry level model (cash cow) in their lineup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted November 13, 2009 Share #175 Posted November 13, 2009 with rangefinders, i found the lenses that suited me best (and i could afford) were fast 35's so i've gotten very used the 50mm FOV... as for you, although the X1 is very cute and all, i would go for the R-D1 -- or, if you can't stomach that -- the M8 (not nearly as fun to use but beautiful images). there's an old Canon available, a beautiful Zeiss 25/2.5, and the Leica 24/2.8 or 24/3.8. there's also a CV in that range, but i can't remember the speed. you might even find you like the CV you already have -- the point is, you won't be limited like you would with the X1. I hear ya, I like fast lenses myself... but when it comes to digital, there just isn't anything that satisfies me completely...well, outside of the M9 which I refuse to pay for. The M8 comes in 2nd, but... well, you know. The X1 is very cool. The only thing that really bothers me is the lack of built in viewfinder. That said, I'll just enjoy my new Rollei 35 instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup de foudre Posted November 13, 2009 Share #176 Posted November 13, 2009 I That said, I'll just enjoy my new Rollei 35 instead. cool!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 13, 2009 Share #177 Posted November 13, 2009 Sean, one thing I was a little concerned by was the issue of battery life. Either you or Michael mentioned in your review that the camera ran out of juice fairly fast. Now forgive me if I'm wrong but wouldn't keeping the shutter in a state of readiness by holding the release half pressed mean much quicker battery depletion? By the way, I've been reading your comments in this and the other threads and I wanted firstly to say thanks for spending so much time clarifying things and answering questions, which is much appreciated, and secondly to agree with you when you say that one also needs to remember the positives about this camera. That said, I'm still very much in a quandary about this: lots to digest. I can't recall what Michael said about battery life but, yes, I did discuss that in some detail and it is fairly short. I myself don't leave the shutter half-pressed, I just half-press it just before the exposure. I actually do that with almost every camera so as to take up part of the shutter travel before I release it. So my own experience with the X1 is that it nailed the exposure timing again and again. But as of this firmware it needs that half-press in advance. I'm not sure the production model will. Thanks very much for the comments in your second paragraph. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 13, 2009 Share #178 Posted November 13, 2009 I want to second ottocrat's thanks to Sean. It seems words are highly scrutinized and easily taken out from the context of his actual intentions. Thanks. I'm very used to it by now but am glad to see that others are aware of what happens sometimes. Sometimes things are taken out of context and some times they're just plain misrepresented. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 13, 2009 Share #179 Posted November 13, 2009 If there are to be some tweaks ................. why give the half baked cameras to reviewers for "public review"? The we will fix it later maybe! is of no benifit. Or is it about warning the public that the product is only so so and not as exciting as the PR machine wants to make out............... it's all a bit shabby If I rephrase this to say simply: "Why did Leica send review cameras out to a few reviewers even though the firmware is not final?" I'd say this: 1) It's a good question. 2) I think they're trying to be more transparent than your average manufacturer. They seem confident about many aspects of the camera's performance and they're also listening closely to the feedback they're getting on how the firmware may need to be refined. To be honest I think its a fairly bold thing to do - to let the cameras be reviewed even though they're in beta. Whatever the reasons, they certainly are still tweaking the camera. It's essentially like letting a final beta process take place publicly (with reviewers). The cameras are not available for sale so the buyers are not working as beta testers. But, in a sense, a few reviewers are doing that *if* they test the camera carefully and cover it in a way that's more than superficial. I've not done formal beta testing for any manufacturer but in this case, I'm actually both reviewing and (in a sense) beta testing the X1. I have a gut sense that the firmware in this camera may end up being even better tweaked (when the X1 is actually released) than firmware might be on a number of cameras which are not allowed out for review until they are at "production level". I think this may end up being a productive process and should benefit the functionality of the camera. We know the controls design is mostly excellent (IMO), that the technical file quality is also excellent (IMO) and now we'll see how well the overall functionality can be tweaked via firmware. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted November 13, 2009 Share #180 Posted November 13, 2009 Sean, please give us comparative information. When you say the files technical quality is excellent in your opinion what is meant. How do they compare to a D90 or D300s with the same sensor or other cameras with similar sized sensors? Better, worse, as good? In what way does it compare, noise, color depth, DR, etc. How about against the M8 or Epson RD1? That in general larger sensors will beat out smaller sensors is well established so we need a like to like to get a real feeling for what it delivers. When I looked at teh DPR images comparing it with the new Ricoh, the Ricoh beat it hands down IMHO. The GXR had better color depth, clarity, pop, detail and less noise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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