d2mini Posted November 10, 2009 Share #1 Posted November 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everyone, I have a few questions and hoping you can provide some insight from your own experiences. I shoot with a Nikon D700 dslr and I don't have any RF (or Leica for that matter) experience at all. So my first question is what can I expect as far as a learning curve? I am thinking that getting used to the finder and focus mechanism is going to be the hardest thing. Anyone care to comment? Especially if you have been in my shoes, maybe with the M8 or if you are lucky enough to already have an M9. Any advice on how to approach using a RF for the first time? My second question is this. I shoot professionally on the side (architecture and product photography) and all my earnings go ONLY towards more camera gear, never personal stuff, and I don't spend personal money on camera gear anymore. I have enough saved to buy an M9 and will be able to come up with more for a lens. I will most likely have this one lens for a while before I can afford another. So with that in mind, if you could only have one lens, what would it be? Maybe something in the $2-4k usd range? Thank you in advance for any insight you can offer. I'm really looking forward to having a high end take it everywhere discreet style camera. I've owned a ricoh gx-100 and now an EP1, both of which try to be my poor man's leica, but I'm tired of pretending. I want the real thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Hi d2mini, Take a look here RF/Leica Newb Questions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
thrice Posted November 10, 2009 Share #2 Posted November 10, 2009 You'll love it. Get a used 50mm summilux ASPH, or which ever focal length you use most, given your subject matter I would go for the latest ASPH designs for optimum sharpness, you should have no issues picking up a mint one in your price range. I don't think it's that harsh a transition some make it out to be, if you've used a split prism focusing screen in an SLR you have experienced a similar focusing action. What you'll really appreciate is the size, sturdiness/finesse and IQ. You could always walk into a camera store and try out any rangefinder they have (preferably a Leica) to see what you think. Slight parallax issues can occur (since you're not seeing TTL), so for architecture a little trial & error might be necessary but digital makes this easy enough. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted November 10, 2009 Share #3 Posted November 10, 2009 1) The easy part first. Likely you will start with either a 35mm or a 50mm as your core lens (I'm an oddball - I always start with a 20-21 in any camera system and build from there). You'll have to decide whether you prefer the purity of 50mm or the edginess of a 35 as your "normal" - welded-to-the-camera default lens. The bias of rangefinders is towards wide lenses, since they poop out in terms of focus and framing at 90-135mm (but more about that in part 2). They are all excellent lenses in relatively small packages compared to SLR lenses. The f/1.4 lenses are expensive and larger. The f/2 lenses cost about 60% of the 1.4s and are VERY small. F/2 used to be the sweet spot for outstanding wide-open performance, but Leica's current 35 and 50 f/1.4 have changed that equation (for a price). The f/2.5 Summarit budget lenses are even smaller and well under $2K, but a bit slow for a sole lens (IMHO). ....then of course there is the exotic 50 f/0.95, at $10K... 2) The hard part. Yes, there may be a learning curve to how the rangefinder presents the world to your eye. Then again, some people just "get it" very quickly. Technically - you get one focus spot instead of the 51/11 points in the D700. You can't see what is actually in focus or not - everything always looks more or less sharp through the finder. Your guide to focus is simply whether the two images in the central RF patch are aligned to each other or not. Another way to put it is that SLRs show your what your PICTURE looks like - what will be blurred, and how much, and what will be sharp, and the precise alignment of elements and corners and edges, and so on. A rangefinder shows you what your SUBJECT looks like. Bill Pierce once put it as "an SLR is a slide show in a dark room - a rangefinder is a window to look through." Gary Winogrand said "I photograph to see what things look like photographed." Obviously a rangefinder photographer - if he'd used an SLR he could have known before pressing the button. That's why I said RFs are biased towards wide-angles - they show you the world with near infinite focus, just as a stopped-down 35 or 28 would. Leicas in particular present you with a 28/35 field of view (except for the venerable M3), and just crop within that fixed view for longer lenses with smaller and smaller boxes. The way I "got" rangefinders, at least in recent years, was with a Cosina/Voigtlander Bessa-L Retro Thing: Venerable Voigtlander Cameras: Under $100 and a 15mm lens - roughly equivalent to an EP-1 or GX-100 with an accessory viewfinder. No way to focus except the footage scale on the lens and depending on the huge DoF of the 15 f/4.5. It was SO liberating to quit worrying about focus and finder info and the other bs and just move in close with this toy-like camera look through the finder (rather than into it) stick a box around what I wanted to capture, and shoot - fast. Eventually moved on to Contax G and then Leica M, since a 15 is not an all-around lens. But the freedom it gave me set my course. 3) Aside from the finder, the main conceptual gear-change in using an RF is to remember that it won't save your butt the way SLR features will. It won't focus for you, it has rudimentary exposure modes and no "intelligent" zonal auto-exposure (although the M9 has added auto-bracketing), you won't be able to hose down the subject at 5-8 fps and pick the moment later in LightRoom, you can't pack a 28-300 and zoom for composition - you'll have to actually be in the right spot at the right time for the focal length you're using. (Not that that is necessarily how you use your D700 personally, but a lot of people do...) In other words, you have to go into the experience understanding that most RFs will leave you lots of space to screw up - but in a good way. Builds strong photo skills 12 ways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted November 10, 2009 Share #4 Posted November 10, 2009 There is a learning curve. But it is a matter of your brain and not your fingers learning. I have said this before: It is a different mindset. Whatever lens you have mounted, you are previewing its field of view before you ever raise the camera. You have preset the aperture (and nowadays the ISO) according to the prevailing light. You see the picture within its mental bright frame. You move in (I call it 'zooming with your feet'). You select the point to focus on; you know from experience at an approximation how much depth of field you will have. You raise the camera and place the focus-on point in the rangefinder patch. The lens is pre-set for focus -- at infinity! That way you need only a slight turn, AND (important) always in the same direction, to make the two images in the patch coincide. Adjust cropping. Click. It is like driving a stick-shift classical sports car, as against a auto-everything van. You are in the driver's seat. The controls are few, and you control them. You have to know about focal lengths, apertures and d.o.f., shutter speeds and what they do. And light of course. It's not like a mobile phone camera. But you are a photographer, and not a camera carrier. Getting to that stage, in film days, used to take a month or two, unless you had some particular mental blockage. With digital, you can do it in less than a week. Trial is cheap, error carries no penalty, feedback can be nearly instantaneous. Much of the education can take place in your room -- it is focusing quickly and precisely on near objects that is the critical proficiency. Have fun. The old man from the Age of Roll Film Rangefinders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 10, 2009 Share #5 Posted November 10, 2009 Andy & Lars have written the definitve considerations... no much more to add... ; but I love lenses and so speak of them: you wrote that architecture and products are your field of interest/profession... so your first lens(es) set must be finalized to such tasks: architecture usually calls for WAs... if you are going to M9, I'd say your decision could be in these two alternatives: a) ONE lens : Summicron 35 Asph TWO lenses - about the same cost : Summicron 50 + CV28 3,5 a) gives you a lens that simply you'll NEVER regret to have. gives you a classic 50 - always good to have - and a WA that, as your experience goes on, you will be able, in case, to change with very little loss for a Leica 28 or 24, or to complement with a stronger WA (Leica 21 or 18). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2mini Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted November 10, 2009 Thank you for all the lengthy replies so far! I need to go back and read them in detail but by quickly scanning i realized i left an important piece of info out of my first post. I had mentioned what I shoot with my Nikon, but that's not necessarily what I would use the Leica for. I may shoot some architecture but not in the same way. The Leica would mainly be used for all my personal stuff. So things like travel/sightseeing, family outings, around the house, on my bike, on the street, etc. In terms of focal length, i see suggestions for the 35-50mm range and you are probably right on the money. Where would be a good place to look for used glass? Now to go make some coffee and read your replies in detail. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 10, 2009 Share #7 Posted November 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) There is quite a bit of interesting stuff on the buy-and-sell right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2mini Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted November 11, 2009 Thanks again for the replies. I went back and read them in depth and even saw some videos yesterday that show the how the focus works. I can see I'll need to make an adjustment but I think for the most part it will be for the better. Still need to decide what lens to start with. Kinda leaning towards the 35. So yesterday I did something I never thought I'd see myself actually do any time soon... i placed an order for a brand new Leica. A black M9 from Adorama. Think there is any chance I'll see it in my hands by Dec 25th??? Would love to have it for my trip to London & Italy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 11, 2009 Share #9 Posted November 11, 2009 The chance is 50-50 And a 35 -any 35 is an excellent choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted November 11, 2009 Share #10 Posted November 11, 2009 I do hope you will like the M9. But -- I would not go on a journey, or out on an important shooting project, with ANY camera I have just received. The Leica M, any one of them, is a far simpler camera to master than a DSLR with a case of multiple buttonitis, but you have to make the very basic transition not only to a manual RF camera, but to a different way of thinking, and reacting. It is like changing from a golf cart to a racing bicycle. You may land head first in a bramble occasionally. The old man from the Age of Manual Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2mini Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share #11 Posted November 11, 2009 I do hope you will like the M9. But -- I would not go on a journey, or out on an important shooting project, with ANY camera I have just received. The Leica M, any one of them, is a far simpler camera to master than a DSLR with a case of multiple buttonitis, but you have to make the very basic transition not only to a manual RF camera, but to a different way of thinking, and reacting. It is like changing from a golf cart to a racing bicycle. You may land head first in a bramble occasionally. The old man from the Age of Manual Thank you very much. If I am lucky enough to receive it in time, it would be taken to accompany my D700. Even if I had owned an M* for years, I would do the same thing because even when accustomed to both they serve different purposes. But even if I receive it the day before I leave, could you ask for a better environment to learn in? I think not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 11, 2009 Share #12 Posted November 11, 2009 Thanks again for the replies.I went back and read them in depth and even saw some videos yesterday that show the how the focus works. I can see I'll need to make an adjustment but I think for the most part it will be for the better. Still need to decide what lens to start with. Kinda leaning towards the 35. So yesterday I did something I never thought I'd see myself actually do any time soon... i placed an order for a brand new Leica. A black M9 from Adorama. Think there is any chance I'll see it in my hands by Dec 25th??? Would love to have it for my trip to London & Italy.[/quote] Italy ? No problem... bring with you your M9 - if you suffer some issue while in Italy, send a PM to me and we can arrange a quick meet with exchange of my chrome M8 (PERFECTLY working) for your M9 : exchange au pair, of course... I'll afford the cost and risk of a warranty covered fix in Solms, and even will offer you a good bottle of our wine... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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