cheewai_m6 Posted November 10, 2009 Share #1 Posted November 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) this is sort of continuing from the other thread 'is there a more comfotable focal length for each person?'. this is a question about feeling self conscious and being a bit afraid of getting in close to get that photo. i assume this is only normal for someone to feel when they're new at street photography. i'm in australia, brisbane. it's a small city, and i believe not culturally exposed. pace of life isn't what i'd call fast. the city isn't very busy either, so i feel like everyone notices me when i'm taking photos of people. i feel fine taking photos of buildings and stuff, but taking photos of people i feel like i'm watched a lot. is this just in my head? because in a way, you have to invade their privacy, so i feel a bit self conscious? i've done some shooting in hong kong, and thailand and i don't feel anywhere near as self conscious. i have learnt a few fantastic tips as well just recently, know your lens, compose the photo in your head, focus the lens with the tab (35mm cron as one) and when i bring the camera up, the majority of the work is done, i just have to compose, and a tiny adjustment in focus and i can click. it's just the getting close to people part i need to get over i think. any tips here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Hi cheewai_m6, Take a look here street photography and self consciousness. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest stnami Posted November 10, 2009 Share #2 Posted November 10, 2009 so i feel like everyone notices me when i'm taking photos of people. i feel fine taking photos of buildings and stuff, but taking photos of people i feel like i'm watched a lot. is this just in my head? because in a way, you have to invade their privacy, so i feel a bit self conscious? mouse roll over ........... Imants krumins is paranoid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
underground Posted November 10, 2009 Share #3 Posted November 10, 2009 I was once taking photo's of protesters on the street near my home which doesn't happen often. The husband of a family there came up to me and gave me the third degree about what i was doing. He got into my face and started to get shitty with his language. so I took my M7 off from around my neck and twisted the strap around me wrist, and was ready to swing it to his head. I turned around and walked away. What I learned is that some people care and some people don't Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 10, 2009 Share #4 Posted November 10, 2009 A lot of people get a bit shirty when strangers take photos of their family...... nothing wrong with that it's being protective. Evidently you are not a working a photographer and were taking photos for your own entertainment so I took my M7 off from around my neck and twisted the strap around me wrist, and was ready to swing it to his head. So you entertained the idea of inflicting grievous bodily harm, nice guy... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun Posted November 10, 2009 Share #5 Posted November 10, 2009 Cheewai -- I think what you ask is the *central* question for anyone interested in street photography -- and a question to which there is probably no single definitive answer. Circumstances determine an awful lot. And doing what you are comfortable with (and what other users and/or 'subjects' are comfortable with) is paramount. I can only speak from my own experience built up photographing fairly intensively on the street, mainly in one location, over the past five years or so. It does get a bit easier; and sometimes -- partly to do with personal mood, atmosphere, circumstances -- it gets harder. It's certainly true, I believe, that the 'sleepier' and less 'urban' the surroundings, the more a street photographer tends to stand out. It's also paradoxically true, I find, that despite virtually everyone on the street nowadays being equipped with a camera/phone-camera of some description, suspicion towards street photographers has never been greater. The world has changed. The deference that was undoubtedly shown to many of the street photography greats back in the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s has gone. Many people will now place the worst possible interpretation on what a person with a camera might be doing. So, bearing all that in mind, what can one do. Well, I only really see two approaches: you either travel to places where street photography seems/feels easier; or you learn how to photograph comfortably on your doorstep. The latter is the route that I chose. Personally, I use all manner of street events -- festivals, community events, markets, anything that's going -- as a 'backdrop'. People seem easier and more relaxed if there's something going on to attract the photographer, and less aware that they themselves might be the subject of a picture. I find that the 'margins' of these events -- rather than the event itself -- often offer rich photographic pickings. The periods when events are building up or winding down often provide satisfying photos. As well as providing the chance of good pictures, working in this way also helps you get used to working up close. It also helps understand what 'works' in a photograph and what combination of equipment and techniques will work for you. Personally I'm most comfortable with a 35mm lens and on occasion a 28mm. Both have the advantage of enabling you to include in the frame subjects that think they are not in your field of view. That's when interesting things start to happen. I also look at huge amounts of street photography. I look closely to see why some photos are so emotionally satisfying (and others flat or uninteresting), of course, but I also look to see if I can work out how a photo was actually taken. Often you can: you can see that the surrounding crowd thought the phtographer was focused solely on the fountain or an interesting building or whatever. This can help you too to construct circumstances in which people are less concerned with what you're doing because it appears not to concern them. There are also, of course, the repetoire of 'tricks' (let's call them techniques because it sounds more dignified) some of which you have no doubt already discovered. Appearing to look past or over your real subject; shooting from the hip and other grab-shot techniques (in my experience these either fail dismally or on occasion work remarkably well); raising the camera partially but not actually looking through the viewfinder... All and any mixture of these will sometimes work. But for me nothing works quite as well as this combination: (1) doing what feels right and sensible in the circumstances; (2) looking very hard and critically at the results this produces and asessing their worth as pictures; (3) going out again determined to try harder or differently.... Hope this helps a bit. Oh -- and it can also be enjoyable too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted November 10, 2009 Share #6 Posted November 10, 2009 Here you go... Rangefound: The Invisible Man in the Street Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roguewave Posted November 10, 2009 Share #7 Posted November 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Let's start with being honest & transparent, We don't even know your name. A person can only be themselves. Even Imants is himself, consistently & honestly. That's why he gets what he gets, Street image making is always a collaboration. If the subject is willing to stop the collaboration, by any means necessary, you better believe it will happen to you. First & foremost, know thyself. Why are you doing this? Do you have some empathic connection or are you a thief, trying to steal something. If the later, I don't know what to say, because I don't steal. I collaborate. I let people see me & get to experience me in the milieu. People that believe they are so clever as to get away with something don't really have anything much to offer for me,. Not their images or themselves. Get real clear about why you want to do something. Then do it. If someone objects, that's an opportunity to define yourself. After all, what you are capturing is really about you, not them. Be honest, above all. It gets easier if you are true to yourself & your subject. When those become congruent, you will know what I'm saying. All the technical stuff really doesn't matter at all. Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpattinson Posted November 10, 2009 Share #8 Posted November 10, 2009 Definitely, if you are feeling uncomfortable then people will notice that and assume you are 'up to no good'. If I find that for whatever reason I'm just not comfortable shooting, then I just stop and go find something else to shoot. You're very unlikely to make good shots anyway, and in my case at least - nobody is paying me to take the grief. One of the beautiful things about shooting in the street is that there are always more subjects. If there is a problem with one, just move on and find something else. There are of course occasions when the shot justifies putting up with some aggravation, and in that case you just have to accept it as part of the price of admission. In general though - the people I see who get into trouble for taking candid shots in the street fall into one of these categories: 1. Just got unlucky and some aggro guy want's to pick a fight and your camera provides the excuse 2. Too slow, pointing camera at someone for ages, taking multiple shots, basically intruding into someone's space. Be quick, if you miss the shot - tough luck and learn for next time 3. Shooting fish in a barrel, like shooting punks in Camden, or homeless people or whatever... there are some subjects that just get photographed so often they get pissed off about it. Give them a break and go find something more interesting. 4. Being sneaky, trying to be 'discreet' when what it really looks like is some pervy guy trying to photograph some girls bum. Basically you deserve to get yelled at... 5. Taking photos of people's kids. Really - if you haven't heard, people are really sensitive to this. Just find something else to photograph, or ask, photos of kids you don't know are almost never worth anything anyway - certainly not the aggravation. Markets are a good place to practice, so is the morning rush to work, and the afternoon rush home - everyone is too busy to stop and chat with a photographer. Some people like to have a 'project' and something they can show if they are asked like a small book of prints. That allows you to relax a bit as you have something to say when someone does ask you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AgXlove Posted November 10, 2009 Share #9 Posted November 10, 2009 this is sort of continuing from the other thread 'is there a more comfotable focal length for each person?'. this is a question about feeling self conscious and being a bit afraid of getting in close to get that photo. i assume this is only normal for someone to feel when they're new at street photography. i'm in australia, brisbane. it's a small city, and i believe not culturally exposed. pace of life isn't what i'd call fast. the city isn't very busy either, so i feel like everyone notices me when i'm taking photos of people. i feel fine taking photos of buildings and stuff, but taking photos of people i feel like i'm watched a lot. is this just in my head? because in a way, you have to invade their privacy, so i feel a bit self conscious? i've done some shooting in hong kong, and thailand and i don't feel anywhere near as self conscious. i have learnt a few fantastic tips as well just recently, know your lens, compose the photo in your head, focus the lens with the tab (35mm cron as one) and when i bring the camera up, the majority of the work is done, i just have to compose, and a tiny adjustment in focus and i can click. it's just the getting close to people part i need to get over i think. any tips here? One thing you could try is just asking to photograph people. I have done that and have had 10% or less decline my request. If I see a group (2 or more) I want to photograph, I'll go up to them and say something like "Excuse me - I'm working on a documentary photo project about life in (city name) and peole in (city name) - would it be okay if I photograph you for my project?" If they say yes, I will say "That's great, thank you! Just ignore me, do what you were doing before I came up - I'll make a few photographs and then I'll be on my way." This way, they know that they do not need to pose and they know not to look at me or the camera. I end up with images of people talking, doing whatever they are doing and going about their lives, which is what I'm after. I really don't care for photos with people staring into my lens or "posing" for the camera. I'll make maybe 6-8 or so photos, depending on what they are doing (more if they are willing and are offering me good things to photograph). If I sense that they are tiring of my presence, I'll stop. When I'm finished, I'll say "Thank you for your help - I really appreciate it" and be on my way. Give this a try - it takes away the jitters (at least for me) and you may end up with some good images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheewai_m6 Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share #10 Posted November 11, 2009 Cheewai -- I think what you ask is the *central* question for anyone interested in street photography -- and a question to which there is probably no single definitive answer. Circumstances determine an awful lot. And doing what you are comfortable with (and what other users and/or 'subjects' are comfortable with) is paramount. I can only speak from my own experience built up photographing fairly intensively on the street, mainly in one location, over the past five years or so. It does get a bit easier; and sometimes -- partly to do with personal mood, atmosphere, circumstances -- it gets harder. It's certainly true, I believe, that the 'sleepier' and less 'urban' the surroundings, the more a street photographer tends to stand out. It's also paradoxically true, I find, that despite virtually everyone on the street nowadays being equipped with a camera/phone-camera of some description, suspicion towards street photographers has never been greater. The world has changed. The deference that was undoubtedly shown to many of the street photography greats back in the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s has gone. Many people will now place the worst possible interpretation on what a person with a camera might be doing. So, bearing all that in mind, what can one do. Well, I only really see two approaches: you either travel to places where street photography seems/feels easier; or you learn how to photograph comfortably on your doorstep. The latter is the route that I chose. Personally, I use all manner of street events -- festivals, community events, markets, anything that's going -- as a 'backdrop'. People seem easier and more relaxed if there's something going on to attract the photographer, and less aware that they themselves might be the subject of a picture. I find that the 'margins' of these events -- rather than the event itself -- often offer rich photographic pickings. The periods when events are building up or winding down often provide satisfying photos. As well as providing the chance of good pictures, working in this way also helps you get used to working up close. It also helps understand what 'works' in a photograph and what combination of equipment and techniques will work for you. Personally I'm most comfortable with a 35mm lens and on occasion a 28mm. Both have the advantage of enabling you to include in the frame subjects that think they are not in your field of view. That's when interesting things start to happen. I also look at huge amounts of street photography. I look closely to see why some photos are so emotionally satisfying (and others flat or uninteresting), of course, but I also look to see if I can work out how a photo was actually taken. Often you can: you can see that the surrounding crowd thought the phtographer was focused solely on the fountain or an interesting building or whatever. This can help you too to construct circumstances in which people are less concerned with what you're doing because it appears not to concern them. There are also, of course, the repetoire of 'tricks' (let's call them techniques because it sounds more dignified) some of which you have no doubt already discovered. Appearing to look past or over your real subject; shooting from the hip and other grab-shot techniques (in my experience these either fail dismally or on occasion work remarkably well); raising the camera partially but not actually looking through the viewfinder... All and any mixture of these will sometimes work. But for me nothing works quite as well as this combination: (1) doing what feels right and sensible in the circumstances; (2) looking very hard and critically at the results this produces and asessing their worth as pictures; (3) going out again determined to try harder or differently.... Hope this helps a bit. Oh -- and it can also be enjoyable too! this is excellent advice. thanks very much, it's very interesting what you wrote. and good to hear from someone speaking from experience, with a motive help. understanding your mindset is very informing. thank you. One thing you could try is just asking to photograph people. I have done that and have had 10% or less decline my request. If I see a group (2 or more) I want to photograph, I'll go up to them and say something like "Excuse me - I'm working on a documentary photo project about life in (city name) and peole in (city name) - would it be okay if I photograph you for my project?" If they say yes, I will say "That's great, thank you! Just ignore me, do what you were doing before I came up - I'll make a few photographs and then I'll be on my way." This way, they know that they do not need to pose and they know not to look at me or the camera. I end up with images of people talking, doing whatever they are doing and going about their lives, which is what I'm after. I really don't care for photos with people staring into my lens or "posing" for the camera. I'll make maybe 6-8 or so photos, depending on what they are doing (more if they are willing and are offering me good things to photograph). If I sense that they are tiring of my presence, I'll stop. When I'm finished, I'll say "Thank you for your help - I really appreciate it" and be on my way. Give this a try - it takes away the jitters (at least for me) and you may end up with some good images. i have asked people before as well, and they have no declined. infact, they seem to be quite happy for a photo to be taken. obviously, taking photos of kids is a touchy area which i am aware of. i will keep going with this style of photography, cause it's very challenging technically and artistically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AgXlove Posted November 11, 2009 Share #11 Posted November 11, 2009 A lot of people get a bit shirty when strangers take photos of their family...... nothing wrong with that it's being protective. Evidently you are not a working a photographer and were taking photos for your own entertainment So you entertained the idea of inflicting grievous bodily harm, nice guy... A person cannot "protect" their family when the family is not under attack (and/or attack is not imminent). I can't see how any rational person could possibly equate photographing someone's family with attacking them. All underground did was prepare to defend himself in case he was attacked - and then he walked away. I cannot see how that makes him a bad person, as you imply he is. The verbal attacker engaged in acts of intimidation and threat, which is most decidedly unethical - and is unlawful in many places. A simple "Excuse me, I don't want you to photograph my family" would have been sufficient. As far as I can see, underground did nothing wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted November 11, 2009 Share #12 Posted November 11, 2009 Outdoors = public space = you can do anything so long it is not illegal photography is not illegal in a public space qed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeed1 Posted November 11, 2009 Share #13 Posted November 11, 2009 A person cannot "protect" their family when the family is not under attack (and/or attack is not imminent). I can't see how any rational person could possibly equate photographing someone's family with attacking them. All underground did was prepare to defend himself in case he was attacked - and then he walked away. I cannot see how that makes him a bad person, as you imply he is. The verbal attacker engaged in acts of intimidation and threat, which is most decidedly unethical - and is unlawful in many places. A simple "Excuse me, I don't want you to photograph my family" would have been sufficient. As far as I can see, underground did nothing wrong. I'm surprised you took the trouble to comment on such a ridiculous posting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AgXlove Posted November 11, 2009 Share #14 Posted November 11, 2009 I'm surprised you took the trouble to comment on such a ridiculous posting Such nonsense should not go unchallenged. No one else had done so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeed1 Posted November 11, 2009 Share #15 Posted November 11, 2009 Such nonsense should not go unchallenged. No one else had done so. On reflection I agree Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 12, 2009 Share #16 Posted November 12, 2009 Just because you guys don't see taking photos as a personal attack there are those people who do and get quite uptight about it . Guys hop into some of your more aggressive neigbourhoods and take your cameras out and start taking photos not all will be as obliging photography is not illegal in a public space In some places the authorities frown upon it, sure exercise your rights but weigh in the factors if it is really worth it. Most of you would cave in. Some countries and environments are easier than others Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
underground Posted November 12, 2009 Share #17 Posted November 12, 2009 A lot of people get a bit shirty when strangers take photos of their family...... nothing wrong with that it's being protective. Evidently you are not a working a photographer and were taking photos for your own entertainment So you entertained the idea of inflicting grievous bodily harm, nice guy... Thank You! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted November 12, 2009 Share #18 Posted November 12, 2009 In some places the authorities frown upon it, sure exercise your rights but weigh in the factors if it is really worth it. Most of you would cave in. Agree and I am one of them. It may be legal but at least around here it is strongly discouraged. For almost a decade now we have been brainwashed into believing that photography equals terrorism, and not at least questioning it makes you an accomplice. Add to that the authorities basically have the final say. If they say it is illegal to photograph CCTV installations in the City, and there is CCTV everywhere around here, it is not hard to put one and one together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AgXlove Posted November 12, 2009 Share #19 Posted November 12, 2009 Agree and I am one of them. It may be legal but at least around here it is strongly discouraged. For almost a decade now we have been brainwashed into believing that photography equals terrorism, and not at least questioning it makes you an accomplice. Add to that the authorities basically have the final say. If they say it is illegal to photograph CCTV installations in the City, and there is CCTV everywhere around here, it is not hard to put one and one together. Yet another example of the bullshit that "the authorities" have spoon fed to the unthinking masses - how they love to brainwash their subjects (and how their subjects love to be brainwashed). Maybe we all need to start wearing the teeshirts you can get from this organization I'm a Photographer, not a Terrorist Another one http://www.zazzle.com/photographer_not_terrorist_tshirt-235605362648346239 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipeclayed Posted November 12, 2009 Share #20 Posted November 12, 2009 Essential reading for the budding street photographer: 2point8 Ways of Working Reading those pointers helped me a lot. I sometimes still go back to them. In my own experience a quick smile works wonders! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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