BRW Posted November 7, 2009 Share #1 Posted November 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am not a professional photographer, but have loved taking pictures my whole life. I am deciding on an M8 purchase, and currently have a Canon 5D Mark II, and while I really like the results I get, I don't carry it around with me alot, and miss so many photo opportunities because of it's size. I am looking at the advantages of the portability and quality that come with the camera. I haven't used Leica before, and to be honest, have never even held an M8 in my hands. I have the chance to get an M8 with a Zeiss 50mm lens from a photographer, and am nervous that I have never used one and am buying this camera blind. I will be choosing between keeping the Canon and the M8. I realize there is a learning curve to the M8 (as I have read), but would like to ask if you think I will have a difficult time switching, and would you suggest I rent one first? I know this is the cusp of the change from M8 to M9, so the value of my M8 will go down if I decide to not keep it.... I like taking intimate portraits (alot of times inside), and feel that this camera will get me out of the house more to take pictures of the world. I live in New England, so winter time is coming, and I keep thinking I will be stuck inside all winter and not use the camera!!! LOL I have a feeling if I get it, I will be very happy with the purchase, but obviously am struggling with the decision. If any further info would help to get some advice, please let me know..... Thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Hi BRW, Take a look here New to Leica, M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pharyngula Posted November 7, 2009 Share #2 Posted November 7, 2009 Personally, I think it sounds as though you have a passion for photography and would probably enjoy the challenges presented by an M. There is unquestionably a learning curve involved with an RF that will require some patience - and there are likely to be some frustrations along the way. But I consider the learning curve to be part of the fun. The thing about an RF and an M in particular (IMHO) is that, once mastered, it gets "out of the way" and allows you to think a lot more about the fundamentals of light and composition. And yes, I feel liberated when I carry it around - I am already a lot less hesitant to take a shot in instances where I know I wouldn't even make the attempt with my D700. It has been many years since I last used RFs and since getting the M8.2 I'm lamenting all those years without one. I'm not ditching the D700 because I see a "practical" need for it in many circumstances. But I'm rethinking the D700 as a "work camera" (no, I'm not a pro) and the M8.2 as my "personal camera". I will be taking M8.2 shots for me. And even the act of using the M brings great enjoyment (and yeah, times of frustration). Then again, I've had my new camera for only two weeks and although it has not left my side, you've got to figure in that I am currently in the infatuation stage (so take it all with a grain of salt). But then again, I somehow know this is the one! And like any serious relationship, I expect a long period of adjustment, occasional frustration and ultimately, various accommodations. Sounds like a digital M, no? I think a used M8 or M8.2 is a good way to get your feet wet. Of course, if you could find one to rent it might be worth considering that option. But you probably need more than a couple of days to really think it through. I came very close to buying a used film M (e.g., M6 classic) with the longer term goal of picking up an M9 when the smoke cleared. That may or may not appeal to you but it would get you past the "is an RF for me" stage. The M8.2 brings me back fondly to my first days with a camera (early 70's) - quite a feat for a digital camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_hutton Posted November 7, 2009 Share #3 Posted November 7, 2009 It's a very personal thing. I learned on a little fixed 40mm Ricoh 500G rangefinder as a kid in the late 70's. I had film Nikons after that which I almost never used as I couldn't get a decent shot - A myopic and zooming in-and-out view of the world didn't work for me. The M8 40mm Summicron suits my take on things. Graeme Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 7, 2009 Share #4 Posted November 7, 2009 If you can rent it for a pair of days, it would be ideal... haveing no experience in RF photographing, you quickly understand if it's your way or not. ABout "learning curve" ... don't worry about: you already are on digital, and I can assure that coming (as me) from >20 years with film Leicas, the real learning curve was when I switched to M8; there is, more than a curve, a trivial initial step... ... MOUNT THE UVIR filter ALWAYS in front of your lens... the rest is usual accustoming to menu - commands etc... focusing through the RF is so "natural" that I cannot imagine one can feel not easy with it. And Welcome to this forum !!! If we will see you again here, I suppose it will mean a CERTAIN decision taken... P.S. M8 is a wonderful camera... if price is good, don't worry about M9... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sliversurger Posted November 7, 2009 Share #5 Posted November 7, 2009 I agree with Luigi. If you can rent one, it'll be well worth it. I don't understand why some people need to choose between DRF and DSLR. For me, I feel that one actually compliments the other in that they each have their strengths and weaknesses, where ones strenght is the others' weakness. The Canon 5D MkII is an all-star of a camera and if you can keep it along with the M8, you should. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted November 7, 2009 Share #6 Posted November 7, 2009 It's a different ball game with a rangefinder. I would keep the Canon 5D II and add the M8 to your gear (that's my basic gear, I use both). If you sell the 5D II you will probably miss the FF feature, the excellent low noise ISO, large LCD, and the ability to crop significant areas out because it is after all a 21 Megapixel camera which gives you a lot of leverage. Renting an M8 would give you a good trial run. Having said that, The M8 offers unique image quality, especially if you like shooting people. If you buy it and don't like it, I suspect that a few months down the road you could sell it for about the same price you paid which I would estimate will be around $2800.00 with the Zeiss lens if all is in minty working and cosmetic condition etc. M8 body's are going for around $2500.00 on E-bay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photon42 Posted November 7, 2009 Share #7 Posted November 7, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Probably you've already checked all the available technical documentation, and know about the obvious differences. I've changed to the RF world over two years back, coming from Nikons. I instantly liked the simple grace of the M8 - it's much like the cameras used to be 30 years and more back. However, it took me more like a couple of days to find out about the rangefinders in general and the M8 in particular. I hardly ever use anything else anymore. My advise would be: buy one and use it for at least six month. You'll be surprised. The loss of value is now acceptable for the M8. Make sure you understand how to deal with UVIR filters and lens coding. That's critical as already pointed out. Regards Ivo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_panko Posted November 7, 2009 Share #8 Posted November 7, 2009 The M8 is an old style of camera where basically only the film has been replaced with a sensor. If you liked photography in the days when things were managed by a few simple knobs and when your could look at scene and pick the shutter speed and f-stop out of your head, you will enjoy the M8. If you like the modern world of computers that take pictures for you then the M8 should probably be a second camera for you. My thoughts for your consideration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted November 8, 2009 Share #9 Posted November 8, 2009 I've got an M8 and a 5Dmk2,I have to say I love the M8. I only use it at ISO 160 though as the results are fantastic and nothing like it,but push the ISO past that and its just to noisy for me,great fun to use though but there is no way you can compare the 2 in ISO performance. I regularly shoot at ISO 2000 with the 5D and the results are just amazing,but the M8 is just so beautiful I'll never sell it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted November 8, 2009 Share #10 Posted November 8, 2009 I have both 5D2 and M8 but you don't say which lenses you most use so its difficult to comment further. I'd agree with coops basically though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted November 8, 2009 Share #11 Posted November 8, 2009 If the guy that will eventually sell you the M8 is a friend, then ask him to give you the camera for a week or so and take your time to understand if it is ok for you or if it's not. I'm sure that at the end of the week you will give him a check and keep the camera with you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
braeside Posted November 8, 2009 Share #12 Posted November 8, 2009 I was in a similar position and recently purchased a used M8u. I also had never touched a Leica before, though like graeme I did use a film Ricoh 500G rangefinder way back in the 70's. (I do go back further than that and started with a Voiglander Bessa circa 1930's that belonged to my Grandfather, and processed my own 120 film as a kid, not in the 1930's you understand...) I normally shoot with a Sony A900 DSLR and still intend to do so, as I love the quality of the FF 24MP files especially when printing up to A1 size. However it is great to have a small camera like the M8 that I can carry around with a couple of lenses anywhere. I'm still adapting to 'rangefindering', especially as I was spoilt with the in camera image stabilisation of the A900. However with practise I have been able to improve my shutter release skills at slow speeds. Just a warning, I thought I would just buy one lens, but have ended up with 4 already:eek: I only have one Leitz lens and that is a used Summicron 50mm c1984, the others are all CV screw mount lenses which if you get a good copy are excellent as well. I had to return the first CV35/2.5 Skopar as it was very poor, the replacement is fine though it needed shimming to get infinity correct. My CV75/2.5 is very good though I had to 'calibrate' the RF cam on it cure front focus. What is noticeable with the Leica is that even the poorest 3rd party lenses are sharp corner to corner unlike some primes on the DSLR when wide open. The lack of an antialias filter on the sensor also gives amazingly sharp files when viewed at 100%. As others have said the high ISO is not so great compared to the modern DSLR, but I have been happy enough with ISO 640 in colour and 1250 in monochrome. Do try and get the M8 on approval and check that it does not have any dead or stuck pixels or column defects which may show at high ISO, otherwise it could be an expensive repair at Leica if it is out of warranty. I am hopeful in a few years that I may upgrade to an M9 if they appear on the used market. Let us know how you get on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goombah6 Posted November 9, 2009 Share #13 Posted November 9, 2009 I have owned my m8 for a year now. I love it. I started out in photography with a pentax k1000 back in the 70's (my first SLR). I love the fact that you had to deliberately select shutter speed and aperture, and remember the light meter displayed in the viewfinder was a true meter with a needle pointer that you lined up in the center for a properly exposed shot. Photograpy for me, at that learner stage, was a very tactile thing. Manual focus, twist shutter or aperture dial until exposure is correct, click shutter. In this digital age, I think the m8 is about the closest thing to a return to my roots as it is a tactile, beautifully made camera that is a joy to hold and use. I researched a little bit about the digilux 3, and was intrigued, but decided to try rangefinder photography for a new twist. Also, I felt that the digilux 3 was probably on par with my existing SLR in terms of digital quality (see below). My first digital SLR was an Olympus E-1. That was a great camera, but I just sold it in order to help supplement purchase of additional lenses for my M8. Even with all the hype about M9, I am still so pleased with my M8, and know that it will be a treasured piece of equipment for me for many years. After all, the megapixel war has been won, and I think the M8 has come through on the winning side. My advice...go for it. ---Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uchanat Posted November 9, 2009 Share #14 Posted November 9, 2009 I started taking photographs in 1968 with a RF Zorki 4, and did so for about 10 years, then corporate life took over and all I used was the likes of Olympus XP and Pentax Espio 140 for snapshots. Then in 2003 I was given a Compact Digital Camera as a present, and used it for a while for snapshots, until one night with time on my hands I decided to read the handbook and started experimenting with the capabilities of the Samsung Compact. It is now 2009, and in the meanwhile I have had Nikon D70, D200, Canon EOS5D, with pretty good lenses, (Mainly Canon L zooms and Sigma for Wide), but ended up with an M8 for my main camera, with Scron 50mm, 28mm, tri elmar 16-18-21 and 90 mm APO. Recently for tele needs I acquired a Canon EOS 50D, with 70-200 USB F4L, and for backup (and always available) a Ricoh Caplio GX100 with W/finder. If you have done all you would like to do with a DSLR, by all means venture into RF, however what I found is having learned photography with RF cameras, my learning curve was very steep with all the electronics in DSLR. Having got to grips in photograpy again with RF, I get better results (with DSLR) and although I don't think I would ever give up the M8, reading manuals have put DSLR's much closer to my heart, looking at comparable results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted November 10, 2009 Share #15 Posted November 10, 2009 The Canon 5D2 is a great camera, but if you like doing informal portrait work then you may find that your subjects are more receptive when photographed with an M8. The image quality of the M8 I always found to be on a par with the original Canon 5D (depending on how one defines image quality) The 10Mp of the M8 will require that you are quite thoughtful with your framing, not as much cropping potential as with the 21Mp of the 5D2. Framing is not as accurate as the DSLR but you will learn that and of course see what is happening outside of the intended picture, more useful than many people realise. The M8 is a much smaller camera, very solidly and beautifully built, a design classic and a pleasure to use. The colour response is different (in my mind better) than Canon cameras but that can be adjusted in post. The files have a biting sharpness which is very hard to define. You must shoot in RAW. The lenses are great, I think better than the Zeiss or CV options but that is just my view. All in all the M8 is slower to use than the Canon when actually taking pictures, but it takes you back to how photography used to be 20 years ago. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted November 10, 2009 Share #16 Posted November 10, 2009 PS has the camera you are thinking of buying had a hard life? Adobe bridge or Lightroom will show you the number of pics taken (in hexadecimal which can be converted to decimal using the windows calculator (in scientific mode). Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRW Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted November 10, 2009 Thank you for all the great replies....I'm amazed at how different replys are from different groups of camera users....yours are very thoughtful....I truly appreciate it... The original deal for the M8 fell through as someone purchased it before I had a chance to get it, so I am still looking for an M8....I guess my concern is getting a decent one, from a trusted source, so I may be looking for a while. I think I will keep the 5D Mark II (I use the 24-70 and 20-200 L lenses), and get the M8 with one lens (not sure what lens that would be). I ordered the original Lecia Manual book from the library and am going to look at it this coming weekend. Thank you again for all the kind replies - now on to my search to find a good used M8 ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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