M8 - Amateur Photographer Review

[earleygallery]

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There are parts of tests that seem to be inevitably subjective, but the testing sequence doesn't have to be. To test a professional level camera primarily in .jpg doesn't just seem odd, it seems negligent. If you're going to offer a serious test of a pro-level camera, you should surely test it extensively in RAW, as well as .jpg.JC

 

Well, given that most wedding and social photographers, surely one of the two potential main pro markets for this camera, predominantly shoot jpegs, I think its more than fair that they test this area of the cameras capability.

 

I'm not sure how many photojournalists - the other main market - do much RAW processing before wiring their photos off to the press.

 

I second what Bill Palmer has said. I did buy the magazine, and read the review on the journey home. I think, in fact, that they have been more than fair - obviously playing down the problems we all know about probably on the understanding that cameras on sale after the review date will not suffer all of the same issues.

 

Last week they reviewed the D Lux 3, next week they're doing the D3. AP are really pushing Leica at the moment.

 

By comparison, their review this week of the Canon G7 is very critical.

[reddawn]

I know about at least one PRO who totaly misleaded the entire world in a review about the M8....remember? (luminous landscape?)

 

In Michael Reichmann's defense, he's not a pro. He doesn't do photography for a living.

 

And to be fair, ALL reviews on the net were misleading. Which reviewer who commented on image quality, spotted the magenta cast problem? Or the streaking problem?

 

(That includes those of us who have had time to play with demo cameras at the various camera shows, launch events, shot with our own SD cards and evaluated the images. We didn't see it either)

[reddawn]

Leica film cameras - I always thought they worked perfectly right out of the box.

 

Agreed!

 

Until the "issues" arose, I don't think anyone expected the M8 to be any different. Maybe even easier because the controls are simple and familiar to most users. Now it is fine with me if people take pride in figuring out how to get the most out of the M8 or any camera. But is this learning curve really the adoption of a useful new skill or just a stopgap requirement to allow the camera to function as it should have "right out of the box?" Prior to this, not many people spent time testing IR blocking filters and playing with so many camera profiles, etc. In my mind, using a Leica was about simplicity.

 

Well put. The "learning curve" to use the M8 now as it were, is not about photography, but about overcoming glaring flaws in the camera to get it to work at an acceptable level, color wise.

 

A lot of pple spent a lot of time and money (buying filters), working to find ways and means to use the M8 at an acceptable level. I think all of us would have expected it to work out of the box, given Leica's reputation and its history of fine products that do indeed function out of the box!

[Guest stevenrk]

In Michael Reichmann's defense, he's not a pro. He doesn't do photography for a living.

 

And to be fair, ALL reviews on the net were misleading. Which reviewer who commented on image quality, spotted the magenta cast problem? Or the streaking problem?

 

(That includes those of us who have had time to play with demo cameras at the various camera shows, launch events, shot with our own SD cards and evaluated the images. We didn't see it either)

 

Red dawn, let's see your porfollio. MR backs up his words with his images. SR backs up his words with his images. Do you?

 

Both, in their reviews, spoke ot many of the qualities of the M8 that makes it -- for some -- a stunning camera. Different and better than anything else out there in digital.

 

And this from someone -- me -- who returned two M8s because -- for me -- its weaknesses do not allow me to use it for the purpose I'd expected to use it for.

 

Let's see some images Red Dawn.

[earleygallery]

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/10493-anyone-got-bjp-20-09-06-a.html

[reddawn]

Red dawn, let's see your porfollio. MR backs up his words with his images. SR backs up his words with his images. Do you?

 

Both, in their reviews, spoke ot many of the qualities of the M8 that makes it -- for some -- a stunning camera. Different and better than anything else out there in digital.

 

And this from someone -- me -- who returned two M8s because -- for me -- its weaknesses do not allow me to use it for the purpose I'd expected to use it for.

 

Let's see some images Red Dawn.

 

First of all Steven, my real name is clearly displayed in the post. Secondly I don't understand this vitriol - I was defending MR, whom someone accused of being a pro and misleading the world with to his reviews. And made the point that MR alone isn't culpable - that many reviewers (including pple like myself who actually handled the demo units at Leica's shows / launches) missed the problems. Where in my original post did I mention SR and his site, of which I am a willing and paying consumer?

 

I'm not sure why showing pictures is relevant in this discussion but if u insist...

 

M6TTL, 35 cron ASPH, from a series focusing on disappearing places in Singapore. This food centre no longer exists as of now....

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[Guest stevenrk]

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First of all Steven, my real name is clearly displayed in the post. Secondly I don't understand this vitriol - I was defending MR, whom someone accused of being a pro and misleading the world with to his reviews. And made the point that MR alone isn't culpable - that many reviewers (including pple like myself who actually handled the demo units at Leica's shows / launches) missed the problems. Where in my original post did I mention SR and his site, of which I am a willing and paying consumer?

 

I'm not sure why showing pictures is relevant in this discussion but if u insist...

 

M6TTL, 35 cron ASPH, from a series focusing on disappearing places in Singapore. This food centre no longer exists as of now....

 

David, saying every review on the web was misleading is not a defense of anyone. And what in the world is your definition of a pro, if MR isn't a pro? Your words, as you have now further explained them, are simply condemnation by group guilt, with a cop out. Frankly, if someone is going to take me down, I'd rather they do it directly.

 

I also read MR's review and SR's. Both were clear in their views, thought provoking, about more than a single camera, and written for the adult and photographers.

 

Steven

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[reddawn]

David, saying every review on the web was misleading is not a defense of anyone. And what in the world is your definition of a pro, if MR isn't a pro?

 

A pro, in the photo sense, is someone that makes his living off photography. SR is one. MR was, and though he does sell prints now, isn't depending on print sales to feed his family.

 

About MR, from his site:

The Critic

 

Your words, as you have now further explained them, are simply condemnation by group guilt, with a cop out. Frankly, if someone is going to take me down, I'd rather they do it directly.

 

What I was trying to put across was that the original poster should not point the finger at MR cos he was not the only one who didn't mention the various problems in his review and instead painted a very rosy picture of the camera. HOWEVER, I certainly didn't condemn anyone in my original post, nor intend to. In fact, I included myself in the list of pple who didn't spot the problem. Perhaps you read too much into the post?

 

I also read MR's review and SR's. Both were clear in their views, thought provoking, about more than a single camera, and written for the adult and photographers.

Steven

 

I've read LL since 2001, when I bought my first DSLR, the D30, based on MR's glowing writeup. It was one of the best purchases ever. Both are photographers I respect and good writers serving the photographic community; I've expressed my disappointment in other posts regarding MR's decision not to mention the problems at Leica's request, but that will not stop me from continuing to peruse his and SR's writings and articles.

 

Digital and colors

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[stunsworth]

I read the review last night.

 

To my mind it is fair and balanced, a couple of minor factual errors but nothing serious.

 

Regarding his use of the camera in Jpeg mode, he said that the Jpeg performance was ok, but not great and that RAW produced the better results. He stated this a couple of times and concluded that personally he would use the camrea in RAW mode.

 

I'm really strugling to see how this review created so much vitriol in parts of this thread.

[earleygallery]

Steve, I think its because they didn't give the M8 100% and hail it as the best camera ever to made by anyone full stop.

[M'Ate]

Well, given that most wedding and social photographers, surely one of the two potential main pro markets for this camera, predominantly shoot jpegs, I think its more than fair that they test this area of the cameras capability.

 

James,

I shoot weddings for a large part of my living and until October only used a pair of Leica M's for that purpose. It's a delightful product range to use with many advantages over DSLR's and some disadvantages. The M8 was awaited with baited breath and I suspect many other pro wedding shooters want to see it perform.

 

However, whatever I use has to be reliable, dependable and economic. No doubt the M8 will be all of these in the near future, but today, and for me, it is not a camera to risk the B&G's pictures with. Are the images from the M8 'better' IQ than the M7/MP... ? Well we've seen some good images, but better skin tones, true tones & colours ...? I'm not sure and until I am, I can't shoot a wedding with it and I won't buy it to test it until the package is ready. That looks like March '07 at the moment.

[Guest stevenrk]

A pro, in the photo sense, is someone that makes his living off photography. SR is one. MR was, and though he does sell prints now, isn't depending on print sales to feed his family.

 

About MR, from his site:

The Critic

 

 

 

What I was trying to put across was that the original poster should not point the finger at MR cos he was not the only one who didn't mention the various problems in his review and instead painted a very rosy picture of the camera. HOWEVER, I certainly didn't condemn anyone in my original post, nor intend to. In fact, I included myself in the list of pple who didn't spot the problem. Perhaps you read too much into the post?

 

 

 

I've read LL since 2001, when I bought my first DSLR, the D30, based on MR's glowing writeup. It was one of the best purchases ever. Both are photographers I respect and good writers serving the photographic community; I've expressed my disappointment in other posts regarding MR's decision not to mention the problems at Leica's request, but that will not stop me from continuing to peruse his and SR's writings and articles.

 

Digital and colors

 

 

David, better understood. And, although we disagree in the sense that I think MR's reivew continues to be one of the more thought provoking and valuable reviews I've read, fair enough.

 

Steven

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[jhluxton]

I must admit I am quite amazed at the number of postings to the thread I started a couple of days ago just to flag up the M8 review!

 

It appears to be fairly written and I don't think it would put me off buying an M8 if I was in the market to buy one. Personally for cost considerations - because I would also have to buy some M lenses - I'll probably go for a D3 and I look forward to APs review of that next week.

 

If I recall correctly the D2 reviewed by Angela Nicholson around 2.5 years ago didn't do quite as well as the M8. Infact I think she picked up on some slight distortion on the 28mm settings.

 

However, it didn't stop me buying the camera for a number of reasons some of which - I saw some sample shots which impressed, it looked traditional and handled well - retro look cameras can have their advantages - look less appealing to "street life" who may want to releive you of your camera if it is too flashy and looks too modern.

 

Two and a half years on I am still happily snapping away and many thousands of shots later I am still satisfied I made the correct decision. My only slight grumble is the rubber grip which went a bit soft in the hot weather this summer and which needs attending to as I think it may eventually come off, but as I don't want to be without the camera I don't appear to be getting around to getting it fixed yet!

 

I'll probably upgrade to a D3 as providing a longer tele lens becomes available. If not I may keep the D2 and buy a V-Lux 1 for the long shots. - Incidentally AP reviews the V-Lux 1 in January.

 

John