brt3 Posted October 16, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) First, let me commend everyone here for having built a great community. I've been lurking and reading over the past week, and am impressed at the willingness shown here to help people without talking down to them. I have used Nikons since I was 14 years-old, but am growing tired of the DSLR Arms Race. I an increasingly convinced that these cameras are isolating me from the creative process. I turn 50 in December and have decided to order an M9 in Steel Gray (in the hope that it arrives this year). My previous RF experience is mostly limited to my Konica Hexar RF Ltd., and my plan is to use the M-Hexanon 50mm f/1.2 with the M9. Question #1: what's the best way to get the M-Hex lens working optimally on the M9; do I tell the camera I'm using a Noctilux or the 50mm f/1.4 Summilux? Question #2: I just received an email from a very prominent Leica dealer, informing me that they have just changed their policy for everyone on their M9 wait list. Specifically, they are now requiring a $2,000 non-refundable deposit on all orders. If you don't take delivery you can only use your deposit towards the purchase of other Leica gear. Is this something that's typical in the Leica community? This rubs me the wrong way and has me thinking I should find a different dealer. Question #3: For my next lens I am considering either a 24mm or 90mm. My inclination is to go wide, but I am open to (and welcome) other opinions. I plan on keeping one Nikon body and 2-3 lenses to handle macro and sports photography, BTW... Thanks, in advance, for any input on these questions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Hi brt3, Take a look here Leica newbie has 3 questions.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mat_mcdermott Posted October 16, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 16, 2009 First, let me commend everyone here for having built a great community. I've been lurking and reading over the past week, and am impressed at the willingness shown here to help people without talking down to them. I have used Nikons since I was 14 years-old, but am growing tired of the DSLR Arms Race. I an increasingly convinced that these cameras are isolating me from the creative process. I turn 50 in December and have decided to order an M9 in Steel Gray (in the hope that it arrives this year). My previous RF experience is mostly limited to my Konica Hexar RF Ltd., and my plan is to use the M-Hexanon 50mm f/1.2 with the M9. Question #1: what's the best way to get the M-Hex lens working optimally on the M9; do I tell the camera I'm using a Noctilux or the 50mm f/1.4 Summilux? Question #2: I just received an email from a very prominent Leica dealer, informing me that they have just changed their policy for everyone on their M9 wait list. Specifically, they are now requiring a $2,000 non-refundable deposit on all orders. If you don't take delivery you can only use your deposit credit towards the purchase of other Leica gear. Is this something that's typical in the Leica community? This rubs me the wrong way and has me thinking I should find a different dealer. Question #3: For my next lens I am considering either a 24mm or 90mm. My inclination is to go wide, but I am open to (and welcome) other opinions. I plan on keeping one Nikon body and 2-3 lenses to handle macro and sports photography, BTW... Thanks, in advance, for any input on these questions. No idea on #1, but would go elsewhere on #2. $2000 deposit seems out of line with what I've seen elsewhere -- personally waiting to take the plunge -- plus non-refundable also seems out of line. Go elsewhere. On #3, I'd go wider than 50 rather than longer if you're keeping some Nikon kit around. The 24 Elmarit is a fine lens. For the type of photography at which the M excels 24 + 50 is a fine combination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelfocus Posted October 16, 2009 Share #3 Posted October 16, 2009 I turn 50 in December and have decided to order an M9 in Steel Gray ... Question #1: what's the best way to get the M-Hex lens working optimally ... Question #2: I just received an email from a very prominent Leica dealer, informing me that they have just changed their policy for everyone on their M9 wait list. Specifically, they are now requiring a $2,000 non-refundable deposit on all orders. If you don't take delivery you can only use your deposit towards the purchase of other Leica gear. Is this something that's typical in the Leica community? This rubs me the wrong way and has me thinking I should find a different dealer. Question #3: For my next lens I am considering either a 24mm or 90mm. My inclination is to go wide, but I am open to (and welcome) other opinions. I plan on keeping one Nikon body and 2-3 lenses to handle macro and sports photography, BTW... Thanks, in advance, for any input on these questions. Congratulations in advance on turning 50 and deciding to 'return to'basics' by getting an M9 - no idea on #1. Sorry. The idea of lens coding/setting (i) to tell the camera how much vignetting/cyan drift correction ... mostly affected by focal length (ii) to have the camera write something into the EXIF so you know later what lens you used (iii) to help Auto ISO figure out the slowest shutter speed hit before bumping the ISO up a notch - Regarding #2, I got the same rubbish from the main dealer in Ireland (Conns Cameras in Dublin) ... a "non-refundable deposit" i.e. if I didn't take delivery for some reason I would get a credit note for the shop only. Their attitude really rubbed me up the wrong way and I decided to take my money elsewhere. The also claimed they were making no profit on the M9 and were only selling them as a favour to Leica and their customers. Yeah right! - regarding wide-angle lens choices in #3 the framelines on the M9 will only go as wide as 28mm so if you go to 24mm you will need an external viewfinder (you focus with the main viewfinder and frame with the other). You get used to it but I just wanted to point out that 28mm is more user-friendly from the point of view of internal framelines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brt3 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share #4 Posted October 16, 2009 - regarding wide-angle lens choices in #3 the framelines on the M9 will only go as wide as 28mm so if you go to 24mm you will need an external viewfinder (you focus with the main viewfinder and frame with the other). You get used to it but I just wanted to point out that 28mm is more user-friendly from the point of view of internal framelines. Thanks for the feedback. I was mistaken on the wide-angle compatibility, as I misremembered [love those Bushisms] and thought I'd read that the 24mm was compatible on the M9 without the external finder. Guess that's what happens when one approaches the Big Five-Oh... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnoble Posted October 16, 2009 Share #5 Posted October 16, 2009 You might want to look through the M9 viewfinder before you settle on a wide angle lens. Its impossible (for me) to see the full 28mm frame area (i.e. all sides of the frame line) without moving the eye around, whereas viewing the 35mm frame line is not an issue. I don't fully understand the optics involved, and maybe a younger or differently sighted eye will see wider. Does anyone have input on this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brt3 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted October 16, 2009 - Regarding #2, I got the same rubbish from the main dealer in Ireland (Conns Cameras in Dublin) ... a "non-refundable deposit" i.e. if I didn't take delivery for some reason I would get a credit note for the shop only. Their attitude really rubbed me up the wrong way and I decided to take my money elsewhere. The also claimed they were making no profit on the M9 and were only selling them as a favour to Leica and their customers. Yeah right! It is difficult for me to understand the mindset of some dealers. I'd love to hear a defense of the "$2K non-refundable deposit", but I simply can't understand how that could EVER be an acceptable way to treat people you want as long-term customers. Perhaps that latter phrase is the key. With the internet it's relatively easy to attract people from all over and sell them products without ever having to provide anything in the way of customer service. I think it may be smart to cultivate a relationship with a local Leica dealer in the Bay Area. I am roughly an hour north of San Francisco and it appears the local Leica stores are Discount Camera (S.F.), Calumet (S.F.), Camera West (Walnut Creek) and Keeble & Shuchat (Palo Alto). I'd love to hear about any positive experiences people have had with any of these dealers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brt3 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted October 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) You might want to look through the M9 viewfinder before you settle on a wide angle lens. Its impossible (for me) to see the full 28mm frame area (i.e. all sides of the frame line) without moving the eye around, whereas viewing the 35mm frame line is not an issue. I don't fully understand the optics involved, and maybe a younger or differently sighted eye will see wider. Does anyone have input on this? Good point. I'm assuming you are NOT an eyeglass wearer? As the architect said, "God is in the details.". This wouldn't necessarily be a deal-killer for me, but it's certainly nice to be aware of these little things before spending one's money on such a long-term purchase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnoble Posted October 16, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 16, 2009 This is looking through the 0.68x viewfinder without glasses. On my M6, which presumably has a different viewfinder magnification, the full 28mm frame line is just about visible. Again, I don't know if this might depend slightly on the individual eye, but I'd recommend to just looking through the M9's viewfinder, assuming you can get your hands on one, and confirming for yourself. Certainly the 35mm appears to be the overwhelming favorite base lens when the matter is discussed on this forum, and this may be one reason. I am using my M9 with a 35mm 'cron. Ditto my M6 which has an older non-ASPH version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 16, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 16, 2009 For 28mm, eye relief (eye to eyepiece distance) is critical. Specs do force a longer eye relief on the wearer. It is not only how thick the glasses are, but also how large. I do use fairly small-framed progressives for my presbyopia, with synthetic lenses, and have no problem with 35mm on my M4-P (.72x finder). With 28mm, I have difficulty seeing the short sides of the bright frame, but can use them with some 'looking around corners'. My M9 is still in the pipeline. My advice to people wondering about 'which lenses' is always the same: Buy the camera with a safe and guaranteed useful focal length like 50mm (which you have already) and use the frame preview lever to get acquainted with the fields of view and the finder look of other focal lengths, while at ease and perhaps walking around in the kinds of environments you will be using the camera in. This will help you make a decision. If you are not really sure, do buy a good used Leica lens. You can divest yourself of it, if necessary, without losing much money. As to the Hexar: Reports seem to indicate that the 50mm length is not too critical about coding or menu choice. With the M8, coding was not even necessary with 50mm! You should run some tests, shooting a neutral target -- preferably a grey wall -- at different menu settings to ascertain which of them gives the best result. Very soon, my guess is that you will want to have the lens milled for coding, because you will have to rummage around in the menu every time you change the lens. John Milich, of Brooklyn Navy Yard, is a good man to ask. Let a qualified camera mechanic pull and replace the Hexar's bayonet (provided that it can at all be done). The old man with the screwdriver Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted October 16, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 16, 2009 #1: you can wait and test it yourself, when the camera arrives #2: take your money from this dealer, send his letter directly to Leica's Stephan Daniels informing him that after this kind of treatment you probably thinking of switching to a 3Ds instead... #3: I would go wide Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 16, 2009 Share #11 Posted October 16, 2009 If a dealer asks for a $2000 non-refundable deposit on a camera that is in very short supply and with massive waiting lists it means only one thing, there is a fundamental problem and the shop requires extra liquidity. Run a mile. As regards a second lens, I wouldn't go for a 24mm unless you regularly use 24mm lenses. The camera has no frameline for 24mm and you'll need to use a separate finder. This is fine, but not everybody likes it and a 28mm would perhaps keep things simple until you decide on your comfort zone, the ideal trilogy of lenses IMO being 28 or 35, 50, and 90. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted October 16, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 16, 2009 my plan is to use the M-Hexanon 50mm f/1.2 with the M9. Question #1: what's the best way to get the M-Hex lens working optimally on the M9; do I tell the camera I'm using a Noctilux or the 50mm f/1.4 Summilux? The first (1966) Noctilux f1,2 (with 2 aspherical elements) is on the list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 16, 2009 Share #13 Posted October 16, 2009 1. Really, with a non-Leica lens, you must experiment with the manual lens coding to find a setting that is appropriate. It's a bad idea to assume that all 50mm f/1.2 lenses (for example) are optically identical. If the Konica has a different vignetting pattern than the Leica Nocti, using the Nocti f/1.2 setting may screw up the picture worse than using no setting/corrections at all. 2. If- IF - you've been on a dealer's list for 3-4 weeks - to your detriment, if that means you were not pursuing an M9 through other, more productive channels in the meantime - and NOW he is changing his policy to require a deposit, I would get some legal advice. It is not exactly fraud, but it was a misrepresentation damaging to your interests. A lawyer would know the precise terminology. Analogous to some of my former co-workers at our newspaper that closed - they had been hired within the previous year on assurances that the parent company was fully committed to the business, and given up other jobs, given up spouses' jobs, sold homes, bought new homes, and paid moving expenses based on those assurances. The company had to pay big settlements to forestall lawsuits when the assurances turned to dust. At a minimum, if it is a bricks-and-mortar store, I personally would go in to the shop when there are a lot of customers around, and start loudly demanding to see the manager and describing how you were treated for all to hear. The best way to discourage cockroaches like this is to turn the light on them. The flip side of this is that I've seen some buyers state that they put themselves on lists with multiple dealers - which IMHO is equally bad faith, and probably why some otherwise decent dealers are now requiring deposits. I pre-ordered early, and have a strong personal relationship with both my camera dealer and my regional Leica rep, and I got one of the first M9's in the US with no question of a deposit. Which just goes to show that mutual trust and good-faith relationships are more productive than trying to "game" the system - from either end. 3. IMHO focal length preference is a (if not THE) core part of one's creative approach to photography. If you don't already know whether you are a "wide" or a "telephoto" photographer, I'd say you have some private soul-searching to do before choosing between a 90 or a 24/28. That being said, rangefinders lend themselves more to wide-angle work. The fixed nature of the viewfinder magnification and RF precision means the photographic experience goes rapidly downhill above 50-75mm or so - you're looking at a small compositional box with a higher probability of focus issues with anything longer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 16, 2009 Share #14 Posted October 16, 2009 Regarding deposits, consider this. What happens to your 2K deposit if the dealer goes bust before they deliver your camera? Yes that's right, you lose it all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltphoto1 Posted October 16, 2009 Share #15 Posted October 16, 2009 I think it may be smart to cultivate a relationship with a local Leica dealer in the Bay Area. I am roughly an hour north of San Francisco and it appears the local Leica stores are Discount Camera (S.F.), Calumet (S.F.), Camera West (Walnut Creek) and Keeble & Shuchat (Palo Alto). I'd love to hear about any positive experiences people have had with any of these dealers. When I lived in the Bay Area I spent a lot of money at Keeble & Shuchat. One of the best camera shops I have ever dealt with. They keep a lot of inventory, and I always found the people there to be very knowlegeable and helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smb Posted October 16, 2009 Share #16 Posted October 16, 2009 (USA) I was advised last week by a dealer that there would be no cost to putting my name on a waiting list. He believed that the M9 would sell well and that there would be no lack of customers for a while which was why no deposit required. He further advised that he believed that in four to six months there would be "open stock" available on the M9. Putting a deposit down is not unreasonable since he probably must advance something for the camera. I have put deposits down for many items (other than cameras). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 16, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 16, 2009 When I lived in the Bay Area I spent a lot of money at Keeble & Shuchat. One of the best camera shops I have ever dealt with. They keep a lot of inventory, and I always found the people there to be very knowlegeable and helpful. +1...ask for Jeff Alford, experienced Leica specialist and down to earth approach. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Leung Posted October 16, 2009 Share #18 Posted October 16, 2009 I ordered my M9 on 9/9 and received it on 10/3 from a Northern New Jersey dealer. They required something like $900- dollars deposit but I gave them $2,000- instead. I know they are financially stable and I want to impressive them and to be the first one to get the M9. Guess what, I believe I was the first one to receive the M9 from this dealership. I think one of the reason why I was the first one bcuz I spent so much money with them since '08 -bought the M8 on 07/08 with the 75mm and 50mm F1.4 -bought the wate and 28mm F2 on 08/08 -trade in the M8 to the M8.2 on 10/08 -bought the Notilux F1 on 12/08 -bought 4 D-lux 4 on 12/08 as X'mas gift for families -bought the Notilux F0.95 on 03/09 needles to mention about buying other accessories. I strongly believed all these were taken into account to become the first one to received the M9 from them as I am sure they have many other who wants the M9 too!! DL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brt3 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share #19 Posted October 16, 2009 +1...ask for Jeff Alford, experienced Leica specialist and down to earth approach. Thanks for the multiple recommendations for K&S. I called there, spoke with Jeff, and found him knowledgeable and very easy to work with. They now have my order. I plan on selling 3 out of 4 Nikon bodies and 10 out of 13 lenses (along with a bunch of accessories) and will be putting that money towards building my Leica system piece by piece. So, Keeble & Shuchat will benefit from the actions of my first dealer. Guess I should thank dealer #1 for steering me towards a good Leica store! I appreciate everyone's advice about my other questions. I understand that setting the M9 to work with my M-Hex lens can only be an approximation, as it's obvious (from the Reid Review) that there is quite a lot of correction going on in the camera. I was hoping that someone might have done this before as I hate reinventing the wheel. At some point, I wonder if I'd be better off selling the Hexar RF Ltd. rig and putting the money towards a Leica 50mm lens? I'll see how the M-Hex works first, but there must be benefits to using a lens that the camera is designed to correct for... Regarding wide/medium/tele -- I think the most conservative approach would be to go with a 35mm and learn the Leica method from the ground up. Buying good lenses never seems to be a mistake, as a few of my Nikkors are worth as much or more than I paid for them. Especially with the rapid changes in digital imaging, the best advice always seems to be "buy the best glass you can afford"... Thanks to everyone for the responses! I realize some of these questions may seem obvious or simple (like the wide vs. tele), but sometimes you get great responses that really help in the decision-making process. I appreciate the hand-holding... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulOD Posted October 16, 2009 Share #20 Posted October 16, 2009 With regard to question #2, I have an M9 on order at Calumet and they didn't require a deposit ( I asked about this when I ordered). I have bought cameras and lenses from both Calumet and B&H and they have never requested a deposit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.