ChristopherGrant Posted May 7, 2011 Share #1 Posted May 7, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Good morning all, This is not to complain, nor to suggest Leica is creating inferior products. Just a log of my experience and to welcome any suggestions. I purchased my M9 about 1 year ago and when working, it's great. About 6 months into owning the camera it goes in for service the first time. The reason being the large dial on back was producing erratic results. They replaced it and cleaned the camera. They made no mention of a scratched sensor on the report or to me. The camera came back with a dirty sensor and one of the viewfinder's LED lights no longer working. I decided to live with the faults until I needed to send the camera in again. The second time I sent it in was about 1 month ago. The reason, while in India one of the camera strap mounts came off. No warning, just came off. The piece holding it in with two screws simply came off and the camera drops to the ground, lightly damaging an older 35mm summicron. So I sent in the camera and lens for service. After 2-3 weeks I had to call Leica to find what was going on. They inform me the scratch in the sensor had been there since the first service and is not covered under warranty. 900+ euros to fix. Though the lens was damaged due to the fault from the camera body, Leica will not check it out (for free) as it has been serviced before and apparently by someone else (before I owned the lens). If I want them to check it out it'll cost around 400 euros minimum. They will fix the strap mount though. The camera should be ready in another 3 weeks. This makes for roughly 2 1/2 months of 12 months I've not had camera due to servicing. So while I do love using the camera, I admit I'm regretting the purchase a bit now. European (Swedish) Law says I cannot get a replacement unless the camera is sent in for service 3x with the same problem. Thoughts are welcome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 7, 2011 Posted May 7, 2011 Hi ChristopherGrant, Take a look here Regret Purchase of M9 after 2nd service. . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
digger1914 Posted May 7, 2011 Share #2 Posted May 7, 2011 I know how you feel. My M9 has been in to be fixed twice in 6 months. I don't feel regret for the purchase however, I am hoping I was just unlucky. I still love the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted May 7, 2011 Share #3 Posted May 7, 2011 why not consider buying a 2nd body as backup.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted May 7, 2011 Share #4 Posted May 7, 2011 Christopher, Things like this happen. I had lots of Leica Cameras and lots of them had something wrong with them. They are just mechanical tools. It happens to the best. Sometimes it helps with Leica , when you talk to them again. Try sending a nice letter, explaining al you tried to explain here. That helped me in the past! I didn't understand the sensor part. Couldn't you see the scratch in the sensor after you used it, when it came back? Why do you use a camera when it comes just out of service, when there are still things wrong with it? If you like, i can give you a telephone number from Leica Solms , which I called in the past and where I could speak to the Leica serviceman myself. Sometimes that helps to understand them better. I understand that you haven't got an insurance against these things? For me this proved to be very handy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristopherGrant Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted May 7, 2011 Brill64: Simply not in the budget. Paulus: Thanks for your thoughts. To explain further, the sensor scratch is very small and was mistaken on my part for dust on the sensor. You can't see it wider than 5.6 on most lenses. I continued to use the camera from the first service as the LED light was a very minor issue (only one line of many was out). As I wanted to use the camera on an extended trip to India, it made sense to hold off. I currently only possess insurance against theft. I've already talked to Leica twice about this, but will consider a letter in addition as you suggested. I do agree though, sometimes things like this happens! ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Valdemar Posted May 7, 2011 Share #6 Posted May 7, 2011 Sell it and buy another one. You could probably get as much if not more than you paid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristopherGrant Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted May 7, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sell it and buy another one. You could probably get as much if not more than you paid. With a scratched sensor? I doubt it ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted May 7, 2011 Share #8 Posted May 7, 2011 Christopher-- If they didn't note the scratched sensor on the first repair paperwork, how can they tell you now that it was already present then? It's quite possible that you scratched the sensor, of course; that's more likely than that Leica would have done so. In that case, they should still have mentioned the problem IMHO when they first had the camera, and quoted for replacement then. One solution is not shooting at a smaller aperture than f/5.6, of course. Not trying to be facetious. Some years back, I knew a professional photographer whose only Hasselblad lens worked properly at only one shutter speed. She said that was good enough, didn't bother mentioning it to her clients, and earned handsomely in her family portrait business. I would say you should have notified Leica when the camera first came back with an LED not working. Just a letter stating that the camera had been returned in that condition. Best, of course, would have been to return the camera for proper repair immediately, but I understand not wanting to be without the camera for another couple weeks. I'm sorry for the problems, and I'm very surprised about the strap lug. That's the first I've seen of that problem on the forum, so it's probably a very rare occurrence indeed. You could certainly trade the camera in on another brand, if you're that disappointed. Your dealer would be quite happy to get a used M9. Of course, the cost of the sensor replacement would have to be factored in. But ask yourself whether you wouldn't likely regret the decision in six months. Good luck to you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristopherGrant Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share #9 Posted May 7, 2011 ho_co: Your absolutely right on the scratched sensor. They should've told me or mentioned it on the service record. As you say, it's more likely I scratched it than they did. The only time I cab imagine this happening is when using a rocket blower to clean the sensor. As I'm happy with the camera when working, I'll unlikely sell it but continue to shoot at wider apertures and simple airbrush out the scratch when shooting narrower. Just a shame though. I did mention the LED to them, but the chances of getting it back before this longer trip was unlikely and since it wasn't stopping me from shooting... ...they should be fixing it now (it's in service still). Still, thanks for the good thoughts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted May 7, 2011 Share #10 Posted May 7, 2011 Are you certain it is a scratch rather than a difficult to remove streak? The reason I ask is I had what I thought was a scratch on my 1Ds camera. I wet cleaned it numerous times and it always stayed there. After several years went by and I was barely using the camera anymore (and it was no longer worth much) I decided to clean it very thoroughly by using Eclipse fluid and Pec pads wrapped around a hard rubber spatula applying a lot of rubbing and pressure. Well it came off and all of that rubbing did not produce any additional "scratches." I don't think sensor cover glass scratches very easily unless something hard and sharp is caught up in the cleaning pad. I have a hard time picturing casual contact from a Rocket Blower doing this. (Maybe the glass on the M9 is more delicate, but I don't see why it would be.) So if you are planning to send it in to have the cover glass replaced, why not try some fairly vigorous cleaning first? Maybe this is just a stubborn mark that you put on the sensor when you cleaned it. You have nothing to lose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted May 7, 2011 Share #11 Posted May 7, 2011 Christoffer, When reading this I get the impression that this camera has had a rough ride. Strap lug came off.... Trip to India.... Big scratch on the sensor.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 7, 2011 Share #12 Posted May 7, 2011 ...When reading this I get the impression that this camera has had a rough ride. Strap lug came off.... Trip to India.... Big scratch on the sensor....I am always puzzled by these type of reactions: the OP takes the camera to India and therefore it must have had a "rough ride"? Doesn't sound like he went off to become a saddhu rolling in the dirt, does it? Sorry for the sarcasm, but what does it mean? That the Leica-M because of it's price cannot be used for normal travel? The scratch on the sensor: why assume it's not a scratch when Leica Service has told the OP that was there since the first service, which inexplicably they didn't inform him about in the first place. Sounds licked he's getting dicked about, which is what happened to me when my M9 went in for a second time, for three months, for a "processor fault", shortly it had a cracked sensor replacement. As I've documented some time ago, I simply lost confidence and sold the camera with no regrets, although I now have six M-lenses sitting around. —Mitch/Bangkok Paris au rythme de Basquiat (WIP) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 8, 2011 Share #13 Posted May 8, 2011 I now have six M-lenses sitting around. Happy to help; my address is... Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydeca Posted May 8, 2011 Share #14 Posted May 8, 2011 This makes for roughly 2 1/2 months of 12 months I've not had camera due to servicing. You think that's bad? In my case the body has been away for servicing 6 months out of the first 9 and is currently on its way back to Solms again to have the shutter repaired/replaced, along with an Elmarit 28 (purchased new with the body) also on its way back to Solms due to a severe back focusing fault. Turnaround on servicing at Solms is very slow in my experience, having to send the body back with fibre and crud all over the sensor after servicing stretches turnaround even further, and now with shutter failure and lens back focusing... grrr! Like you say, when an M9 is working its awesome but the use/cost ratio (in my case) is extremely poor. I see the M9 as an expensive toy that could never be taken seriously as pro gear. Having said all that I still can't wait for it all to come back working properly... once you get into the cult its hard to break free =). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydeca Posted May 8, 2011 Share #15 Posted May 8, 2011 Sell it and buy another one. You could probably get as much if not more than you paid. How could you sell a body with a scratched sensor to some naiive buyer with more money than sense for (near) retail with a clear conscience? Or do you mean you'd knock the price down from full retail by the $4,200 I was charged for a sensor replacement? In which case why not just return it for a refund? I don't have a problem with a Leica dealer having to take it on the chin for selling an M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydeca Posted May 8, 2011 Share #16 Posted May 8, 2011 The only time I can imagine this happening is when using a rocket blower to clean the sensor. Its practically impossible to scratch the IR filter with a rocket blower. Even if you accidentally ran the nozzle of the blower across the filter while cleaning its still very unlikely that would damage the filter. The most common cause of scratched IR filters during sensor cleaning is during one form/another of contact-based cleaning and this would usually be wet cleaning with a sensor swipe. You said Leica cleaned the camera during the first service and that the sensor was dirty when they returned it. You've only ever cleaned the sensor with a blower and its scratched? Something doesn't add up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydeca Posted May 8, 2011 Share #17 Posted May 8, 2011 I am always puzzled by these type of reactions: the OP takes the camera to India and therefore it must have had a "rough ride"? Doesn't sound like he went off to become a saddhu rolling in the dirt, does it? Sorry for the sarcasm, but what does it mean? That the Leica-M because of it's price cannot be used for normal travel? The scratch on the sensor: why assume it's not a scratch when Leica Service has told the OP that was there since the first service, which inexplicably they didn't inform him about in the first place. Sounds like he's getting dicked about, which is what happened to me when my M9 went in for a second time, for three months, for a "processor fault", shortly it had a cracked sensor replacement. As I've documented some time ago, I simply lost confidence and sold the camera with no regrets, although I now have six M-lenses sitting around. —Mitch/Bangkok Paris au rythme de Basquiat (WIP) Right on, all of it. I feel like I'm traveling the same path although I only have 5 lenses =). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristopherGrant Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share #18 Posted May 8, 2011 Thanks all for your responses. I've used other film Ms before so it's a bit of a surprise to have some of these issues. The camera has gone through 'normal' use; street work, studio work, photojournalism and editorials. I'll follow up on this when the camera is returned to me. hydeca: Your absolutely right that a rocket blower is very unlikely to be the cause, but it's practically impossible to prove where it happened and thus they won't cover it on warranty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 8, 2011 Share #19 Posted May 8, 2011 Do you have the Passport service where you are? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydeca Posted May 8, 2011 Share #20 Posted May 8, 2011 I've used other film Ms before so it's a bit of a surprise to have some of these issues. The camera has gone through 'normal' use; street work,studio work, photojournalism and editorials. I'll follow up on this when the camera is returned to me. I own an M6 TTL, it has never failed and I have complete confidence in its reliability. As for the M9 it has taken me a while to accept this as it cost me so much, but my experience is they're the most unreliable full frame digital ever made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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