brill64 Posted February 28, 2010 Share #1 Posted February 28, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) ..i know this has been discussed somewhat in length on this forum and i apologise in advance for dragging it up here again however i seem to be experiencing this issue a lot recently with fabrics, textured wall coverings and office chairs, since i've been shooting interiors. i've also noticed it occurring much more frequently with the m9 than with the m8 and i'm losing shots because of it. i'm shooting in dng format with additional lighting but wondered whether it might make any difference if dng setup was compressed or uncompressed? do members have methods of avoiding moire (other than not using the digital m) such as camera angle, proximity and lighting methods for interiors? any pointers would be appreciated.. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/114002-m9_moire/?do=findComment&comment=1242466'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 28, 2010 Posted February 28, 2010 Hi brill64, Take a look here m9_moire. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted February 28, 2010 Share #2 Posted February 28, 2010 One trick is to put the focal plane just slightly off the fabric. That has the same effect as an AA filter. If you judge it just right the print will still be sharp (not the 100% cop, though ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
35mmSummicron Posted February 28, 2010 Share #3 Posted February 28, 2010 I am interested to hear other M9 user experience regarding moire and anti-alias/jagged edges. I am finding that I am seeing this A LOT more instances of moire and jagged edges (particularly with fine hair detail) than when shooting with M8 (Both using C1 Pro, DNG only). I understand they are similar sensor pixel size, so is there some incamera processing that's happening/not happening comparing the two cameras? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englander Posted February 28, 2010 Share #4 Posted February 28, 2010 Can't speak to any increase in occasions of moire, as I haven't managed to get an M9 yet, but I have found the moire tool in the new trial version of Aperture 3 to be very easy to use and quite effective with those few M8 images that I have which suffer from moire. I haven't noticed any image degradation. You might download a copy if you have a Mac and try it to see if it solves your problem. Capture One also has a moire tool in the professional version. Joe Joe Englander Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted February 28, 2010 Share #5 Posted February 28, 2010 I am finding that I am seeing this A LOT more instances of moire and jagged edges (particularly with fine hair detail) than when shooting with M8 A trivial explanation might be that your M9 focuses more accurately than did the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
35mmSummicron Posted February 28, 2010 Share #6 Posted February 28, 2010 I am also noticing that the Moire tools in C1 Pro does a much better job at reducing colour moire (and occassionally pattern moire) with M8 DNG files compared to M9 DNG files........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted February 28, 2010 Author Share #7 Posted February 28, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) thanks friends..here's one more example with the chair backs.. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/114002-m9_moire/?do=findComment&comment=1242548'>More sharing options...
viramati Posted February 28, 2010 Share #8 Posted February 28, 2010 A right pain.imported into LR2.6 They had better get some tool into LR2 (LR3) that sorts this out as this is the software that ships with the M9 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/114002-m9_moire/?do=findComment&comment=1242689'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 28, 2010 Share #9 Posted February 28, 2010 A trivial explanation might be that your M9 focuses more accurately than did the M8. Took the words right out of my mouth.The examples posted here are of course a pita, but nevertheless not that complicated to post-process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted February 28, 2010 Share #10 Posted February 28, 2010 If there is a way to do it Lr2 I'd love to know Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 28, 2010 Share #11 Posted February 28, 2010 I could only do it in CS4. Lasso the areas and desaturate blue and yellow. (or any other appropriate color) And then a bit of blurring on a layer and painting it in on a layer mask and add a bit of blue Mind you, this is rough and ready on a small jpg. Give me a big file where I can work with more precision and you will never see it has been done.: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/114002-m9_moire/?do=findComment&comment=1242718'>More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 1, 2010 Share #12 Posted March 1, 2010 I could only do it in CS4 I am not going to buy CS4. I always use RAWs and LR. I also observe moire quite often... Sample crops: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
35mmSummicron Posted March 1, 2010 Share #13 Posted March 1, 2010 I have an M8 product info pamphlet that I got when the camera was just announced. In it, it describes that moire patterns are eliminated by the camera's signal processor. is it possible the current M9 firmware is much less aggressive in this respect compared to the M8's handling of moire? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsjxyz Posted March 1, 2010 Share #14 Posted March 1, 2010 I read somewhere this is due to the absence of anti-aliasing filter in M9. Is there any such kind of filter that we can put infront of the lens? Is IR/UV cut will help this? Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted March 1, 2010 Share #15 Posted March 1, 2010 Jerry, you're right that an anti-aliasing filter would reduce or eliminate the problem, but it would also reduce sharpness. (That's what other 35mm format digital cameras use in front of the sensor.) The problem isn't with the focal length of the light involved (as would be necessary for UV/IR-Cut filters to help). It arises because the data striking the sensor are lined up at a similar spatial frequency to the placement of the pixel wells. (That's why anti-aliasing filters are also called 'low-pass filters': They don't pass details small enough to interfere with the physical locations of the pixels.) (I know someone can explain that better than that. ) Using a soft-focus device on the lens might help. High-end motion-picture lenses take a piece of fabric (think sheer nylon stockings) behind the lens to reduce sharpness. Moiré is a nuisance, but so is losing the sharpness that causes it. Since the post-processing software packages are adding anti-moiré tools, it may be better to fix it in post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 1, 2010 Share #16 Posted March 1, 2010 I have just tried the C1 V5 Pro Moiré tool on the net curtain but it does not work on the JPEG. If someone could upload a horribly moiréed DNG onto a FTP site, I would have another go, to see how good it is. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted March 1, 2010 Share #17 Posted March 1, 2010 Have posted to this thread to someone in the Leica camp who responded to me straightaway and said he would point this out to the powers that be. My hope is that a sort out for this becomes available in LR as this is the software provided and one shouldn't really have to go elsewhere to sort this problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 1, 2010 Share #18 Posted March 1, 2010 I am not an LR user, but I am 100% sure it can be corrected in LR as well. Heck, I could even do it in Elements.And PictureWindow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted March 1, 2010 Share #19 Posted March 1, 2010 Thats great Jaap so if someone can suggest a workflow that would be great Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_R Posted March 1, 2010 Share #20 Posted March 1, 2010 I am not an LR user, but I am 100% sure it can be corrected in LR as well. Heck, I could even do it in Elements.And PictureWindow. Jaap, you talk about home solutions for people who have time to plaing with each picture, right? Tell us how, so we can test with pleasure. I am more intersted in dedicated, automated and smooth solutions, like ones which already exist in LR, are built-in, like removing of vignette or aberrations. We need one more section with slider(s). Not playing games with manual correction of piece of frame. We already have enough of next - not liked - steps with red corners... Brrr... PS: Wilson, I will try to put my RAW on FTP tonight. PS: We can 'hide' red corners in LR manually too (graduated filter), but then often new casts appear, eg. yellow or blue... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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