DFV Posted February 24, 2010 Share #1 Posted February 24, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I found the results to be disturbingly different. The Summicron is incredibly sharp edge to edge with an incredible amount of contrast. The superiority with the Summilux is such that I am beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with it. If any can take a look at both shots please comment. I am linking to jpeg and both are full resolution about 10 meg... Careful. The motif is horrendous yet it serves me very well to se contrast and sharpness. Both shots where taken at f5,6 and 1/3000 sec. I have only converted the pictures from DNG to JPG in Lightroom. No sharpening and no retouching or editing. Summilux... Summicron... Please let me know what you think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 24, 2010 Posted February 24, 2010 Hi DFV, Take a look here Just tested the 50 Lux and Cron 50mm my M9.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted February 24, 2010 Share #2 Posted February 24, 2010 Don't confuse contrast with sharpness. On the Summilux@ 5.6 diffraction is already starting to kick in too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trond Posted February 24, 2010 Share #3 Posted February 24, 2010 I found the results to be disturbingly different. The Summicron is incredibly sharp edge to edge with an incredible amount of contrast. The superiority with the Summilux is such that I am beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with it. If any can take a look at both shots please comment. I am linking to jpeg and both are full resolution about 10 meg... Careful. The motif is horrendous yet it serves me very well to se contrast and sharpness. Both shots where taken at f5,6 and 1/3000 sec. I have only converted the pictures from DNG to JPG in Lightroom. No sharpening and no retouching or editing. Summilux... Summicron... Please let me know what you think. Dear DFV, I have compared the two images using the compare function in LightRoom, and I agree with you, there is a slight but clear loss of definition/contrast in the Summilux image. However, I have seen similar differences between two copies of the same lens. I just tested two copies of the Summilux 35mm ASPH. There was visible differences in the two copies in landscape images focused at infinity (150m), where DOF should not be an issue. I own four Leica 50mm lenses, Summilux 50 ASPH (new), Summilux 50mm (1961 model), 50mm Summicron (2002 model) and Summicron 50mm (1957 model). Of these four lenses the new Summilux 50mm ASPH is the superior one, then the Summicron 50mm (2002 model=current model). These two lenses are very similar stopped down to f 5.6, but the Summilux wide open beats the Summicron even at f 4.0. On the M9, diffraction is not an issue until f 10 or so. Best regards Trond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share #4 Posted February 24, 2010 Don't confuse contrast with sharpness. On the Summilux@ 5.6 diffraction is already starting to kick in too. I am not confusing both. Have you seen the difference? Look especially at the center top part where there is a crack in the building. I honestly think the Summilux should perform much better. What do you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 24, 2010 Share #5 Posted February 24, 2010 I'llhave a look on my calibrated monitor at home. I was just reacting to the content of your post. Are these the asph versionsof the lenses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted February 24, 2010 Share #6 Posted February 24, 2010 Look especially at the center top part where there is a crack in the building. There is a noticeable difference but not enough to worry me. Did you focus bracket and choose the one with the best focus? My suspicion is that we are seeing slight differences in how the lenses are focussing. The fencing on the lower roof shows moire in both shots but the Summicron DOF seems to stretch further back. It might be that, for a given rangefinder position, the Summilux is focussing a little closer than the Summicron (and hence the Summilux's DOF doesn't reach back as far)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted February 24, 2010 Share #7 Posted February 24, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) It also seem to me a bit out of focus for the 'lux. Maybe it needs recalibration in Solms. His distance must be set @ infinity on both lens. Try and shoot something contrasty enough with both lenses in a distance less than 5 meters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted February 24, 2010 Share #8 Posted February 24, 2010 It looks like the Summilux is just slightly out of focus. For an accurate test use some charts in controlled lighting and measure the distance and make sure both lenses are at the same focus mark. Then post the results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share #9 Posted February 24, 2010 It also seem to me a bit out of focus for the 'lux. Maybe it needs recalibration in Solms. His distance must be set @ infinity on both lens.Try and shoot something contrasty enough with both lenses in a distance less than 5 meters The lens came from back from calibration today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share #10 Posted February 24, 2010 It looks like the Summilux is just slightly out of focus. For an accurate test use some charts in controlled lighting and measure the distance and make sure both lenses are at the same focus mark. Then post the results. I bracketed focusing and the result is the same. The sharpest picture from the Lux is simply no match (as you can see) for the Cron. This should not be so, at least this is what I am told. I also made pictures at f1,4 and the results are simply awful... For a moment I thought the problem could have been software related. The lens came back now (today) from Solms and should have been perfect. I deactivated the lens detection and yielded the same results. Summicron - spectacular .... Summilux - substandard. I also tested all my other lenses and they are all perfect. It is difficult for me to believe that a Summilux will perform so poorly and mostly that it would have been cleared by Solms for return. I am testing extensively before contacting them although I am leaving for the weekend and wont be able to discard any other problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trond Posted February 24, 2010 Share #11 Posted February 24, 2010 Dear DFV, Are you absolutly sure you used the same JPG compression quality on both images? I notice that the Summicron file is 0.5 MB larger that the Summilux file. This can be due to the greater amount of detail in the cron image, but also if the jpeg compression is different. When you retest, you should also use a tripod and self timer, to make sure that the camera is 100% stable. I notice also that the Summicron image isl slightly tilted upwards compared to the Summilux image. This can lead to focus differences. I think however, that your lens is within spec, as I have on several occasions seen this kind of small difference between two copies of the same lens. Best regards Trond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted February 24, 2010 Share #12 Posted February 24, 2010 The lens came from back from calibration today. Hi, which 50 Summilux version is this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 24, 2010 Share #13 Posted February 24, 2010 What I was asking too.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted February 24, 2010 Share #14 Posted February 24, 2010 Hi, which 50 Summilux version is this? What a good question - if an early lux is being compared with a modern cron the modern lens will outresolve it and give much better edge to edge... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
t024484 Posted February 24, 2010 Share #15 Posted February 24, 2010 I can see a difference in sharpness, but I doubt if this will be visible if you print the pictures. What I notice in favour of the Lux, is that in those places where the contrast is high, being a dark antenna wire against a clear sky, I see more detail. When taking an image at F2.0 these high contrast differences in detail become even larger in favour of the Lux, that is what I noticed when testing both lenses, Internal flare is so much better for the Lux in critical situations. Hans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trond Posted February 24, 2010 Share #16 Posted February 24, 2010 Hi, which 50 Summilux version is this? Metadata of DFV´s files show a Summilux 50 ASPH. For comparison, I have uploaded test pictures from a similar test I did a few days ago. First two images are Summilux 50 ASPH and Sumicron 50 at f1.4 and f2.0 respectively. Next two images are both lenses at f5.6. Images are untouched, just converted to 100% quality JPEG in LightRoom 2.6.1 Summilux_ASPH_f1.4.jpg Summicron_f2.0.jpg Summilux_ASPH_f5.6.jpg Summicron_f5.6.jpg Camera tripod mounted and self timer used during capture. Focus at infinity, approx 200 meter to cathedral. Look for fine three branches, roof tiles and fine details on the cathedral. Only at f5.6, the Summicron almost touches the Summilux ASPH. Below is a direct compare in LightRoom at 400% of the two lenses at full aperture. Summilux_vs_Summicron_400x.tiff In the picture the lightning ancestors on the roof of the arch bishops residence is clearly seen. In real life these arrestors are copper rods 2-3 meters tall. In the M9 image with the two 50mm Leica lenses, these copper rods ar clearly resolved, and they are just one pixel wide. This clearly states the capability of the M9 and Leica glass! Best regards Trond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share #17 Posted February 24, 2010 Hi, which 50 Summilux version is this? The latest ASPH. version. Both are the current model. The Summilux is one year old. I have not noticed such critical quality issues with the M8.2 because it crops most of the problem away. On the M9 the problem is very apparent. That is why when I received the M9 I noticed right away and was not happy with the pictures blaming myself. After several weeks of the problem persisting I started testing and the problem was evident. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share #18 Posted February 24, 2010 Dear DFV, Are you absolutly sure you used the same JPG compression quality on both images? I notice that the Summicron file is 0.5 MB larger that the Summilux file. This can be due to the greater amount of detail in the cron image, but also if the jpeg compression is different. Nope, both have been exported and converted to jpg at the same time. The larger size could be due to the gain of definition. What I am very impressed about is the quality of the Summicron that simply left me speechless. I have not used it for some time believing that the Summilux was superior. The only reason I took it out is because even without comparing I felt that the Summilux was substandard. Comparing both the difference was just surprising. I will do a tripod test next week... however the result is simple. No mater on or off a tripod this lens is no way near the Summicron. If I use the lens and see there are issues with it without the need to compare then there is something wrong with the lens. To be honest the performance is not what I would expect from this lens. I hope it is just a flaw from mine and that this is not how all Summilux 50's perform. That would be a problem that can not be solved. In any case if you wish me to link you to my DNG files please let me know so you can see on your Lightroom for yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFV Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share #19 Posted February 24, 2010 I own four Leica 50mm lenses, Summilux 50 ASPH (new), Summilux 50mm (1961 model), 50mm Summicron (2002 model) and Summicron 50mm (1957 model). Of these four lenses the new Summilux 50mm ASPH is the superior one, then the Summicron 50mm (2002 model=current model). These two lenses are very similar stopped down to f 5.6, but the Summilux wide open beats the Summicron even at f 4.0. Have you tested these with your M9? By the way, many thanks for your help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 24, 2010 Share #20 Posted February 24, 2010 The Summilux 50 asph should be eye-wateringly sharp at 5.6. You results are not typical by any means.Somebody get out the MTF curves... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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