Help: M8d ($3200) or M9 ($8000)?

[syccsy]

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Hello everyone.

 

I am new here and do need some helps.

 

I'd been using M7 for a while, and it is the time to upgrade for digital. I have two choices now:

 

1) a used (mint) Leica M8d (as the original listing: ‘d’ is for distingué, and we believe it deserves stand-alone status. With its unique specs, eminent pedigree and unbeatable price, this ever-so-limited offer black Leica M8 will make it easier to own the very best. Fully upgraded with the improvements found on the M8.2, thinner bright line frames for more precise composition, quiet, low-kinetic energy shutter (1/4000 sec. top speed), sapphire glass LCD cover, and topped off with a vulcanite finish, these M8s are factory brand new and fully Leica-USA warranted.) @ $3,200.00 Canadian.

 

2) a Brand new Leica M9 @ $7,600.00 Canadian.

 

I have a Summilux 50mm 1.4 and Summarit 35mm 2.5. Most for street and landscaping photography.

 

A $4,500.00 different. Justify?

 

Appreciate your suggestions.

 

John:confused:

[kalina]

I think I would go for the M8 you mentioned and save myself the $4500 for one or two more lenses... or put it towards the purchase of a Noctilux in the future.

[wparsonsgisnet]

John, images from the M8 are not much different than those from the M9.

 

If this is your first foray into digital pix, get the M8, use it, hone your computer skills (what photography...), and when you want an M9, sell the M8 and have a ball.

 

The lenses are where most of the magic is. The difference in price will buy all the computer HW and SW you will need for this voyage.

 

If you're already digital savvy, the same recommendation. Use the M8 to get comfortable, then get an M9 later. Who knows, there may be a new body then that will bring the price of the M9 down to the price of the M8 at this point in time.

[regedit]

it's a matter of full frame vs. ASPC and crop factor. only you know if that worth it. If you need the same focal for your lens as on film, then only M9 is the answer!

[marcg]

Get the M8 and a lens.

 

Skip a generation and save for an M10 which will be a more mature digital product for Leica which is frankly still getting used to the technology. Use your M7 for full frame and the M8 for everything else

[syccsy]

Thank you very much, everyone.

 

I have decided go with the M8.

 

Cheers;

 

John

[marcg]

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And a new lens?

[marknorton]

I think you are right to go with the M8 - I have two M8s, three if you count "that one" and an M9 and I'm still more than happy using the M8s, especially since they are upgraded as yours will be.

 

The M9 for me is a work in progress and I expect it to be updated at Photokina this year which will leave us early adopters nursing heavy depreciation.

 

Enjoy your M8.

[wparsonsgisnet]

What is the male equivalent of "nursemaid?"

[chris_tribble]

Don't forget to get the IR cut filters for all your lenses - also to get your wider lenses coded (up to 35). Essential for an M8. Also, don't forget that the one thing you're likely to feel the need for sooner than later is a 28 mm lens to get back your wider FOV. 28 cron asph is a joy to work with on the M8.

[jklotz]

The nice thing about an M8 now is that most of the deprecation has already occurred. Find a nice used one at a good price, shoot with it for a while and sell it for close to what you paid for it. An M9 isn't going to be close in terms of resale in a few months....

[DFV]

 

I have a Summilux 50mm 1.4 and Summarit 35mm 2.5. Most for street and landscaping photography.

 

Good choice to go with the M8 at first! In order to compensate for the cropping factor you should think about a 28mm. Like that you will have a slightly increased range from what you have now. With a 28 you will be at 32mm which will be closest to the 35 you have now. With the 50 you will go up to 65mm only to become a very nice portrait option.

[jaapv]

The price seems OK, the only thing that bugs me is the used-car-salesman description of a totally normal upgraded M8. M8distingue indeed!

[jamriman]

Not that it matters much at this point but why does he have to pay 8K for one?

[SeanMPuckett]

> Why so much?

 

Canadian mark-up and tax.

[sanyasi]

If it is not too late (for your decision), I would recommend the M9 rather than the M8 to someone in your position--I am in the same boat. Here is why:

 

1. Taking photos with lenses designed for a 35mm camera with a less than a full sensor is a pain.

2. You will be limited to the size of photo prints (I regularly print at 17 by 22). If that is not your style, then this may not matter.

3. False economy in lenses. I am primarily interested in 35 and 50, so to buy a 28 or lower lens for the M8 and then get the m10 or whatever later means that I am buying lenses (which I view as a much longer-term decision than buying camera bodies) that I eventually either will not use that much or sell at a discount (based on one site, it sounds like you take a 40% discount at a minimum).

4. False economy on the body. The apparent assumption is that the m9 prices will crash when the m10 comes out. I wouldn't think they would crash anymore than the M8 or M8.2 have already. I would be surprised if the M10 is cheaper than the M9 so if you are going to get on this train--spend the bigger bucks--you might as well bite the bullet now and enjoy it sooner without hidden costs (like lenses and IR filters that you don't really want or need). If the M10 is sufficiently better than the M9, you will lose some money on the trade up, but as you use the M8, its value will also depreciate, particularly if a bunch of full sensor used M9s flood the market as people upgrade to the M10. So you are losing money there too. Moreover, who says who have to trade? In both cases, the loss equals the cost of using the camera.

5. This list has produced a lot of technical problems with the M9 that are being worked out. This is a problem that early adopters always face. Do you really think you are going to avoid this with the M10 if you adopt early there? The M8 is being described in this thread as if there were no early problems, but there were.

6. The apparent assumption is that the M10 is just around the corner. The way the digital world works, it just might be, but I have to think that Leica will not be as fast with the M10 as the M9. Full sensor is the big selling point--I suspect ISO sensitivity concerns are a bit overrated in the real world. I further suspect that the jump from full sensor to new full sensor camera will not generate the same level of demand as the M9. The reviews of working M9s have been pretty terrific. The cameras are built to last a long time. I suspect many users will stay with the M9 even when an M10 comes out, but that is just speculation.

 

Now, all of this assumes the funds are available to spend the big bucks now. If not the M8 seems like a good solution (which I have debated) to getting into rangefinders at the digital level.

[novice9]

I have never owned or tried an M8 (just an M9), so my comments are not as valid as others, but with that caveat I have spoken with and read a considerable number of comments stating that the IQ between the M8 and M9, once the images reaches print, is material. In addition, one of the most important benefits of the M9, imo, is the ability to crop photos and still have sizeable images in terms of file size to print. This last factor is critical to me, as I shoot alot of wide angle and find myself printing both the uncropped and then some cropped version of the image. Last, It was 3 years between the M8 and M9 and there is no reason to believe that the lag between the M9 and M10 will be any less (on the contrary, there are reasons to believe it will be longer). Yes, leica introduced the M8.2 in the middle, but the improvements brought by that camera were ergonomic (shutter and glass) and not related to IQ. Clearly, the M9 could benefit from more memory, perhaps a faster processor, maybe even an updgraded LCD, but again, all ergonomic changes. Anything that will impact IQ is likely at least 3 years away from the date of the M9 release, and even then I would expect we are talking about incremental IQ improvements on a smaller scale (probably a jump to higher pixel count, 25MP+ i would think, and maybe another stop of ISO performance) than the fundamental switch from crop to FF sensor that we saw from M8 to M9. Still another factor is that the quality of digital post processing continues apace and it may be that 5, 10, 20 years from now, the 16 bit m9 files may offer considerably more options over the 8bit m8 files than even exists today.

 

So its a very personal decision, but another perspective to consider.

[dseelig]

I would not go with the m8 as in artifcial light because of the uv ir filters i would get strange reflections. I could not rely on this camera.

[cheewai_m6]

definitely m9. i don't own either, but i will never touch an m8. when i buy a digital m, you can be your bottom dollar i will not be buying a non-FF camera that requires IR filters.

 

$3200 is still a lot of money. a lot of money for a camera that is obselete. an m2 or an m3 is an older model, it works just as well as an mp. an m8 is outdated and does not work like an m9. my opinion is that, i'd rather pay for a modern camera, than to 'learn' from an obselete camera that in many ways, is flawed.

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Look here: Leica M

[Angelos Viskadourakis]

3200 is an good price for an M8,the camera is all that a Leica M photographer will ever need,of course every next model have something "additional" in order to market it and sell

but again in photography are the skills of the photographer that determine the IQ and between those two models are not that obvious the differences and dont expect great technical steps the next years,lenses are more important and are designed to work the same between those two frame sizes,and after all as 6x6 is my standard format i never accept the term "full frame" for the tiny 35mm film cameras.

PS>if you plan to shoot only at 1200 iso then M9 has a cleaner-noisewise-image so get the M9 but overall i would go for M8 and lenses,sapphire glass is very vital element in M8.