dalippe Posted March 22, 2008 Share #1 Â Posted March 22, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm considering sending my M8s to Solms because recently I have been losing shots due to SDS. Taking many shots in rapid succession (sometimes on c, sometimes on s) sometimes leads the cameras to crash. All but once, removing and reinserting the battery solved the problem (the other time I had to use a fresh battery even though the "drained" battery was pretty fresh when the problem occurred). Â Since Leica haven't, to my knowledge, said anything official about SDS, it isn't clear to me whether or not they know the cause of and/or solution to the problem. If you've sent an M8 to Solms to have this problem fixed, can you please tell me whether or not Solms successfully solved the problem (and how many tries it took them to get it right)? Â Thanks for sharing any information you have. Â David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Hi dalippe, Take a look here Does Leica know how to fix SDS?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
michael_b_elmer Posted March 22, 2008 Share #2 Â Posted March 22, 2008 For those of us that might not already know what this abbreviation stands for, could you kindly explain what sds stands for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipotto Posted March 22, 2008 Share #3 Â Posted March 22, 2008 Sudden Death Syndrome Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 22, 2008 Share #4  Posted March 22, 2008 I'm considering sending my M8s to Solms because recently I have been losing shots due to SDS. Taking many shots in rapid succession (sometimes on c, sometimes on s) sometimes leads the cameras to crash. All but once, removing and reinserting the battery solved the problem (the other time I had to use a fresh battery even though the "drained" battery was pretty fresh when the problem occurred). Since Leica haven't, to my knowledge, said anything official about SDS, it isn't clear to me whether or not they know the cause of and/or solution to the problem. If you've sent an M8 to Solms to have this problem fixed, can you please tell me whether or not Solms successfully solved the problem (and how many tries it took them to get it right)?  Thanks for sharing any information you have.  David   This is NOT SDS. SDS the camera dies completely with no functions working in the menu items and also the camera may fire with a change of battery but still no menu items will work. Been here done that twice it is not SDS and it only happened to a certain amount of Bodies in the beginning of production. There have been no reports lately that I heard or know about since than. There was a suspect capacitor that came from a vendor that caused this issue. Sometimes the battery charge indicator does not relate to the actual charge of the battery. You should recycle the battery and try that first. Just leave the camera on and let it drain down than recharge the battery. I would also try a different SD card  Your camera sounds like it is hitting the buffer and the battery is dying in the middle of the process. First try a different battery Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalippe Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share #5  Posted March 22, 2008 This is NOT SDS. SDS the camera dies completely with no functions working in the menu items and also the camera may fire with a change of battery but still no menu items will work. Been here done that twice it is not SDS and it only happened to a certain amount of Bodies in the beginning of production. There have been no reports lately that I heard or know about since than. There was a suspect capacitor that came from a vendor that caused this issue. Sometimes the battery charge indicator does not relate to the actual charge of the battery. You should recycle the battery and try that first. Just leave the camera on and let it drain down than recharge the battery. I would also try a different SD card Your camera sounds like it is hitting the buffer and the battery is dying in the middle of the process. First try a different battery Hi Guy,  Thanks for the suggestions, and for the clarification about the meaning of SDS.  But if I understand your message I think you might have misunderstood mine. Most of the time immediately removing and reinserting the SAME battery fixes the problem (there was only one time this didn't work). After reinserting, I can shoot lots of frames on that same battery. So the battery is not getting drained.  I started tracking what SD cards and batteries were being used when it happens, and I know it has happened with three different SD cards and three different batteries. So I don't believe it is the fault of the cards or batteries, but of the cameras.  Also, I have recycled (i.e., drained overnight and then recharged) all three of my batteries and it happened twice on batteries that had been recycled within days of the incident. So this is not a solution, as might be expected from the fact that the batteries are not drained and work fine after reinsertion.  David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanyr Posted March 22, 2008 Share #6 Â Posted March 22, 2008 Is it a SDS problem if I can't release the shutter or turn the camera off but I can access the digital menus? Sometimes I can't access the digital menus as well. The camera has to be restarted by reinserting the same battery. The problem appears to happen more frequently with the SF-24d flash attached. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalippe Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share #7 Â Posted March 22, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Perhaps in light of Guy's clarification, a moderator could rename this thread "Does Leica know how to fix this problem?" Also, if I can be allowed to edit my original message, I can remove the reference to SDS. These changes might help me get useful replies from people who have experienced this problem, as opposed to attracting attention of people who suffered SDS. Â Thanks. Â David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 22, 2008 Share #8 Â Posted March 22, 2008 Is it a SDS problem if I can't release the shutter or turn the camera off but I can access the digital menus? Sometimes I can't access the digital menus as well. The camera has to be restarted by reinserting the same battery. The problem appears to happen more frequently with the SF-24d flash attached. Â No you can't access the menu's at all is what normally happens. Â In David's case it may actually be something wrong and not to say it is not but I would try a few things as i mentioned just to be sure. I think sometimes we jump to send these off to get fixed and should really try a few things first just to make sure things like battery and Sd cards are not the real culprit. There are bad SD cards no question out there and batteries are always suspect. Nature of digital in many ways. Since David is hitting the buffer hard with repeated shots and the buffer is failing him it maybe something internal but it also could be a bad battery or a battery that is not truly indicating it's actual charge. When you recycle down this also resets the camera battery indicator which is what you want to happen. This way you are getting a better reading. So this is worth a try and so is trying a different battery and SD card . Than if it is still happening than i would send in. i am sure most of us want to avoid a trip back to the factory at all costs . So reason I mentioned try a few things first and make sure it is not that . But in David's case this is not a SDS issue, which is complete failure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted March 22, 2008 Share #9 Â Posted March 22, 2008 Just a long shot. Have you tried reloading the firmware? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 22, 2008 Share #10  Posted March 22, 2008 Hi Guy, Thanks for the suggestions, and for the clarification about the meaning of SDS.  But if I understand your message I think you might have misunderstood mine. Most of the time immediately removing and reinserting the SAME battery fixes the problem (there was only one time this didn't work). After reinserting, I can shoot lots of frames on that same battery. So the battery is not getting drained.  I started tracking what SD cards and batteries were being used when it happens, and I know it has happened with three different SD cards and three different batteries. So I don't believe it is the fault of the cards or batteries, but of the cameras.  Also, I have recycled (i.e., drained overnight and then recharged) all three of my batteries and it happened twice on batteries that had been recycled within days of the incident. So this is not a solution, as might be expected from the fact that the batteries are not drained and work fine after reinsertion.  David  Sorry David , I just saw this. In this case it has happened to many of us. it has happened to me a few times as well . The camera works okay for awhile than nothing, replacing the battery kicks it back in gear. It's not SDS as we know it but something that happens and i have never received any info on it. I do not know the cause of this but just that it happens. I still suspect in my mind it is the batteries falling below a voltage level that can't keep the camera going. But this is a guess and for such small batteries it makes me wonder. This happened to me a lot in the cold. But in normal temps as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted March 22, 2008 Share #11 Â Posted March 22, 2008 I think it is a firmware glitch. It happened to me once in the past few weeks while I am away on vacation. In my case, it was while shooting continuous, and a Sandisk Exteme III SD card. Something is happening when you fill the buffer. It may also be battery related. Somebody should write Leica and ask. Â Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_W Posted March 22, 2008 Share #12 Â Posted March 22, 2008 This has happened to me recently as well... annoying (but in a way reassuring) when you know it is a recurrent problem with a number of bodies and not just yours. Â T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted March 22, 2008 Share #13  Posted March 22, 2008 I think it is a firmware glitch. It happened to me once in the past few weeks while I am away on vacation. In my case, it was while shooting continuous, and a Sandisk Exteme III SD card. Something is happening when you fill the buffer. It may also be battery related. Somebody should write Leica and ask. Robert   Me too--I'm suspecting a firmware glitch on this as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoersch Posted March 22, 2008 Share #14 Â Posted March 22, 2008 I have had David's problem happen regularly with my second body while shooting in continuous mode. I sent the camera back to Solms and had it repaired extensively. Since that did not help at all, however, I got a new camera as replacement - problem gone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickEgg Posted March 22, 2008 Share #15 Â Posted March 22, 2008 It sounds like a firmware glitch. The SDS is still around. My M8 purchased 3/07 died last month and nothing could bring it back. The body is currently with Leica and is expected back in my hands soon. Leica hasn't confirmed it was SDS but the repair sheet stated that the circuit board was gonna have to be replaced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalippe Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share #16 Â Posted March 23, 2008 Just a long shot. Have you tried reloading the firmware? Thanks for the suggestion, which I haven't tried. Perhaps I will, but recall that this is on two bodies. So it seems it is even more of a long shot...the firmware would have had to misload on two bodies... Â David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalippe Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share #17 Â Posted March 23, 2008 If I understand correctly, people seem to be saying that they think it is firmware related because it is happening more recently than in the past. I can't remember the exact timing of my incidents, but I know it happened at least once with older firmware. But I agree that it is more frequent recently. If only someone participating in this thread had some contacts at Leica, perhaps he could inquire if Leica knows why this happens and if there is any point in sending the camera in. But to have such a person reading this thread would require great luck on our part .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalippe Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share #18 Â Posted March 23, 2008 Me too--I'm suspecting a firmware glitch on this as well. Â Jamie, Â I believe you've had a pretty trouble free M8 experience. Does your "Me too" apply only to suspecting a firmware glitch, or also to having had this problem recently (as in after loading the new firmware)? I ask because from what you've said, we have good reason to believe your hardware is in working order so it certainly lends weight to the firmware theory. Â David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 23, 2008 Share #19  Posted March 23, 2008 Hang on a minute, this sounds to me like it could be a battery LOAD problem rather than a firmware glitch. Batteries do not behave in a linear manner, which means that they can behave differently under different circumstances.  As I understand it, the camera is shutting down during, or after, heavy use of the buffer during continuous shooting but the camera comes back to life after the battery is removed and replaced.  Continuous shooting places a heavy load load on the battery because power is needed to: 1. meter the scene 2. display the metering result in the VF 3. operate the shutter 4. read from the sensor and load into the buffer 5. rewind the shutter 6. display the preview on the LCD (if this option is chosen) 7. read from the buffer and download into the SD card 8. update the battery indicator/shots remaining window 9. carry out other 'housekeeping' routines such as clearing down a portion of the buffer 10 and probably some other things I haven't thought of  OTOH, starting up the camera after the battery is replaced places a much lighter load on the battery because the camera only needs to carry out a self-diagnostic, which is probably little more than checking the state of flags (bits) in a register, and supplying power to the battery indicator/shots remaining window.  The more a battery is put under load the more it discharges and the more its internal resistance drops until eventually the charge left in the battery is not enough to support the load and we say that the battery is flat. At this point the battery's internal resistance is very low but, owing to chemical recombinations, it will quickly recover to a limited extent when the load is removed.  Bearing the above in mind, and sorry for the lengthy but necessary explanation, it is quite conceivable that continuous shooting is placing a heavy enough load on a partially discharged battery that will appear to be charged after it is removed from the camera (which also removes the load) and is replaced in the camera.  Don't be fooled by the charge indicator (I've bored at length on this topic on this forum before ) because NO charge indicator will give a realistic indication of the charge in a battery - only a disharge test, where a battery is placed under load for a short time to see how it's internal resistance behaves, will.  So, does this mean that the battery is a dud? No, not necessarily, it probably means that it is far enough discharged that it is struggling to cope with the load of continuous shooting but you won't know it because the battery charge indicator can't tell you.  What's the fix? If you're planning to shoot continuously then take plenty of fully charged batteries with you and change to a fresh one frequently.   Pete, the former battery back-up system design engineer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 23, 2008 Share #20  Posted March 23, 2008 Pete well said and sort of what I was getting at. I have had this happen with every firmware beta and public. So i don't think it is that myself. All fingers point at battery because it has happened to others as well.  Pete i really think you hit the nail on the head in this sentence alone. I really think this is the key element to the batteries  it is quite conceivable that continuous shooting is placing a heavy enough load on a partially discharged battery that will appear to be charged after it is removed from the camera (which also removes the load) and is replaced in the camera.  And this one  So, does this mean that the battery is a dud? No, not necessarily, it probably means that it is far enough discharged that it is struggling to cope with the load of continuous shooting but you won't know it because the battery charge indicator can't tell you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.