B+W 486 filter - Official Schneider Stance

[ejcaliguri@comcast.net]

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Letter I got from my Schneider Optics Rep;

 

"Hi everyone,

 

Most of you are probably aware of the fact that Leica's M8 digital camera

does not adequately cut IR transmission with its built in filter. At PMA

Leica had several M8s on display with B+W 486 UV/IR cut filters mounted.

Last week Leica began to ship their own brand of IR cut filter and we have

had a number of calls asking if there are any differences between our 486

filter and those from Leica. We have been told that Leica's works "better"

than ours so I thought it would be good to investigate what the differences

might be. In addition, Heliopan makes a similar filter that they call a

"Digital" filter. I should also say that Schneider Kreuznach confirmed that

we are not making Leica's filter. Leica's filter is being made in Japan and

here are the differences:

 

Leica's filter is a slightly weaker than ours or Heliopan's, but the

differences are negligible. Leica claims the latest version of their

firmware is matched to their own filter and will therefore produce more

accurate color. In reality, this difference is also negligible. Color

rendition with this camera varies greatly based on conditions such as the

color temperature of the light source, type of light source, exposure, and

perhaps most significantly, the subject matter itself.

 

The only significant difference I can find that would give the Leica filter

an advantage is that their mount is slightly narrower than our F-Pro or Slim

mounts. This comes into play when used on the Leica 24mm f/2.8 M lens, as

the Leica filter ring will more easily permit the lens hood to be attached.

Our F-Pro mount will work, but it takes considerable force to attach and

remove the hood. I believe this is also the case with Heliopan.

Additionally, if our Slim mount filter is used, Leica lens hoods that slide

over the outside of the lens barrel cannot be attached at all, as our Slim

mount is slightly wider that our F-Pro mount. All other lenses work fine

with our 486 F-Pro mount and will permit the use of a lens hood. I should

also point out that I would not recommend any IR cut filter be used on the

21mm M lens. The extreme edges of the frame could exhibit a cyan color

shift.

 

One disadvantage to buying Leica's filter is that it costs more than ours.

Ours is also more readily available and in a wider variety of sizes."

 

In summary:

 

* We do not make Leica's UV/IR filter, packing slips state the country of

origin as Japan.

* Leica's filter is slightly weaker and is matched to the M8's latest

firmware.

* When used with Leica's 24mm f2/8 M lens, the lens hood is easier to

attach if their filter is used.

* Our Slim mount filters cannot be used with Leica M series hoods that

slide over the outer barrier of the lens barrel.

* Ours costs less than Leica's.

* We offer more sizes and have inventory on hand.

 

---end of statement--

 

For my part - I have run UV - Vis and near IR (IR that can penetrate glass - even 'Specialty glass', - not longer wavelengths) spectra on all three and can confirm much of this experimentally - Spectrophotometric wise anyway. No 'name' given for Japanese maker of Leica glass filter. Speaking from a scientific point of view - the statements that Schneider makes are correct. Maybe an adjustment of Color Temperature would negate the difference, This can be done in RAW files.

 

I have no data on the 24 mm Lens - I have Leica made filters on them.

 

Thanks

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[carstenw]

I have B+W filters for most of my lenses, and am happy with the results. I only use Leica filters on my WATE and 28 Cron, where there might be a visible difference. In fact, the 28 Cron might even be fine with the B+W filter, although I cannot confirm that.

 

The B+W Slim 60mm filter has the advantage that it comes with a lens cap. This can be an issue for those who have older 75 Lux and 50 Noctilux lenses, and are missing the correct lens cap.

[tashley]

I have B+W filters for most of my lenses, and am happy with the results. I only use Leica filters on my WATE and 28 Cron, where there might be a visible difference. In fact, the 28 Cron might even be fine with the B+W filter, although I cannot confirm that.

 

The B+W Slim 60mm filter has the advantage that it comes with a lens cap. This can be an issue for those who have older 75 Lux and 50 Noctilux lenses, and are missing the correct lens cap.

 

AND... B&W were at least to some extent 'there for us' when we needed them!

 

t

[Leicaiste]

I have the slim 49mm BW UV/IR 486 on my Tri-Elmar 28/35/50, and lens hood reversed, I use the provided lens cap on it.

[DaveEP]

I tested the Leica and B+W E39 filters side by side and for general purposes, I could see no difference on the screen or on prints I made.

 

There may be differences, but they were certainly not enough to worry about.

 

Now, on wide angles lenses, Sean's testing showed that it was worth using Leica. For medium to long lenses, I am quite happy with the B+W.

[wparsonsgisnet]

Sean's stuff shows that the Leica in-camera correct makes a difference for the wider lenses.

 

Since the vignetting correction needs to change for different apertures -- and we don't know if the little sensor on the M8 is used for this purpose -- then we might all be as well off using Cornerfix (this sucker asked for such software when the vignetting and cyan-drift stuff started).

 

I believe Sandy McGuffog is working on the batch oriented stuff, now. [sorry, you mac users are out of luck at this time]

 

I'm about to put John Milich's ltm adapter on my CV15 (need to get the Wet and Wild polish), and will try Cornerfix immediately.

[scott kirkpatrick]

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Corner_fix went to version 5.0 earlier tonight, with batch features. The strengths of the overall and the red vignetting corrections are separately adjustable. He's working on a version that produces a 16bit DNG file rather than the leica compressed 8-bit file, since that may solve what appear to be fairly rare problems of posterization when the red signal needs correction but is relatively weak.

 

I've seen the problem with the B&W slim 55 mm filter used on the Leica 24/2.8 Elmarit first hand. My lens hood sits cocked about 10 degrees off angle, wedged into place. But the Leica 55mm filters are only now beginning to appear, so I am happy to have B&W available, and just wish I hadn't bought the slim holder.

 

scott

[sandymc]

I believe Sandy McGuffog is working on the batch oriented stuff, now.

 

Bill,

 

0.9.0.5 (available as of today) has batch mode....

 

Sandy

[wparsonsgisnet]

Thanks, Sandy, my stupid assistant didn't think to check before posting.

 

Thanks for this brilliant piece of software that I am looking forward to using.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

All pretty much true but the B+W filter will still leave a cyan cast on 24mm and below with leica's firmware because it is weaker and that is what the firmware is designed for. also leica is correct in there statement that the leica filters made for them are designed specfically for there firmware so saying they will give the most accurate color is correct. a more denser IR filteration will affect color , is it noticeable is the question and the answer is yes it is but you really have to look and for most cases will not notice it. i have tested the WATE and certainly no question the leica filter works better thanthe B+W . Should you switch them again is a question that should be asked and again i would say from maybe 24mm down that you would be better served with leica and above 24mm really won't matter that much in non critical shooting. we still have to remember IR will affect other colors as well also. My preference is all leica filters just because i want to have a constant work flow and process in my work. i don't want to turn this off or on and all that stuff. Just install and shoot. Now i have seen about 400 leica 60mm IR filters on the Solms tour the other day being prepared for shipping from there vendor in Japan which makes them to Leica specs. I like B+W filters but your letter came directly from there marketing dept that wants to sell filters so something to be aware of also. At least they answered correctly for the most part

[sean_reid]

We've discussed this quite a bit so far so I'll just again confirm that the match between the firmware corrections and the Leica filters (vs. the 486) is most apparent with the 21 mm and wider lenses. I need a Leica 55 mm filter to see what the difference is with a 24. I use 486 filters with various lenses that are 28 mm and longer.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean