Leica X (Typ 113) Sensor?

[TK!]

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Hi folks,

 

first impression: great! But are there any details known about the sensor?

 

Regards

 

tk

[elmars]

Same sensor like in the T, X2, X-Vario.

 

Elmar

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[jonoslack]

Hi folks,

 

first impression: great! But are there any details known about the sensor?

 

Regards

 

tk

 

16mp Sony APS-C sensor with a light AA filter - same as in the Pentax K5, Ricoh GR, Sony Nex 6, X-Vario, X2and many other cameras. Tried and tested (if not exactly cutting edge!).

[biglouis]

16mp Sony APS-C sensor with a light AA filter - same as in the Pentax K5, Ricoh GR, Sony Nex 6, X-Vario, X2and many other cameras. Tried and tested (if not exactly cutting edge!).

 

I've been thinking about that. Especially as I am a very satisfied GR owner - which I have eulogised about at another forum that Jono is known to frequent.

 

The impression I have formed about Leica over the years is that they are fastidious about all components including sensors. I am taking it on faith that if they are still using this sensor then it is because in their opinion it matches their lenses and does not compromise their high standards in IQ.

 

This new X is quite a tempting proposition.

 

LouisB

[leicatraveller]

Hi folks,

 

first impression: great! But are there any details known about the sensor?

 

Regards

 

tk

 

the same 5 years old sensor produced by Sony (and used by entry level sony /nikon cameras for many years....now discontinued even in cheap sony nex...they upgraded even in the NEX 5xxxx series to the 20mp and to the new 24mp in the A6000 sony and Nikon D3200...

[jonoslack]

the same 5 years old sensor produced by Sony (and used by entry level sony /nikon cameras for many years....now discontinued even in cheap sony nex...they upgraded even in the NEX 5xxxx series to the 20mp and to the new 24mp in the A6000 sony and Nikon D3200...

 

Of course, you are right (although, isn't it 3 years?) - but it's still in use in some currently produced (and excellent) cameras such as the Ricoh GR. . . . . and although it perhaps isn't relevant in this case, it's worth remembering that the newer 24mp sensor is nothing like as good with M lenses - suggesting that it imposes limitations on wider angle lenses.

 

I'm not privy to Leica's thinking on this, but I am aware that it's not just a case that newer is better (especially for wide angle lenses with a short distance to the rear element). I'm also aware that smaller pixel pitch makes the issue more problematic.

 

Glass half full?

[leicatraveller]

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Of course, you are right (although, isn't it 3 years?) - but it's still in use in some currently produced (and excellent) cameras such as the Ricoh GR. . . . . and although it perhaps isn't relevant in this case, it's worth remembering that the newer 24mp sensor is nothing like as good with M lenses - suggesting that it imposes limitations on wider angle lenses.

 

I'm not privy to Leica's thinking on this, but I am aware that it's not just a case that newer is better (especially for wide angle lenses with a short distance to the rear element). I'm also aware that smaller pixel pitch makes the issue more problematic.

 

Glass half full?

 

I think the first camera to use this sensor was the sony A580 (2010)

in digital world is a geologic era

but i dont think its a problem of compatibility with M lens since it look many Nex users are happy with this combo sensor /M lens ...but its possible that dosen't behave very good for leica standard

i also understand that forecast of Leica sales for this T are maybe few thousands cameras for year , and i dont think sony will make some modification of their sensor for such niche

 

anyway i m a leica user (M240 ) ...and from my point of view i really cant understand why to buy this camera.....i m not loyal to any brand, and for me the Sony RX1 and A7r are blowing away this T (and i have both this 2 cameras)

 

 

another point...Leica users , a customer that typically love street photography , a Cartier Bresson admirer (if not to say lover well they want to use a M rangefinder lens on a camera without any focus assist like has Sony, Fuji and other brands

 

for me impossible ...and even with the decent A7r focus assist for me its to slow for real street photography

 

for me T user catch just panoramas and portraits....HCB style of photography need another camera ...or Autofocus camera or a Rangfinder with a really experienced user that has a good ability to focus

 

i dont belive in Zone focus ...sorry this work good only in sunny days ......if there is few light i must push up iso to 400.000 to keep F11 ))))

i have also read your article about manual focus on T....for me is already poor this sony "zebra assist" while using manual lens .....

 

but maybe here i m the only one who do reportage type of photography and not static subjects

[jlindstrom]

Well, Leicatraveler I can see where you're coming from with your opinion and respect that. But..

 

Why should one care how old certain sensor is, be it from last century or last month? The only important thing is that the camera delivers what it promises. If Leica can deliver necessary quality with older and cheaper sensors, making better margins, then good for them. Job well done.

 

Sure, new sensor might enable even better.. even better lens would also be good.. and lighter weight.. and bigger battery.. and better screen and better evf.

 

We can continue wishing for a lot of things, but for now the camera is what it is. And it's either good for you or it isn't. But debating about age of technology is fairly useless..it just doesn't matter, if the camera delivers.

 

//Juha

[mjh]

By the way: When the legendary Digilux 2 was introduced in 2004 it was the last camera with that 5 MP 2/3" Sony CCD of 2001 vintage; in 2003/2004 everyone else was switching to the 8 MP version of that sensor.

[tom0511]

I think the first camera to use this sensor was the sony A580 (2010)

in digital world is a geologic era

but i dont think its a problem of compatibility with M lens since it look many Nex users are happy with this combo sensor /M lens ...but its possible that dosen't behave very good for leica standard

i also understand that forecast of Leica sales for this T are maybe few thousands cameras for year , and i dont think sony will make some modification of their sensor for such niche

 

anyway i m a leica user (M240 ) ...and from my point of view i really cant understand why to buy this camera.....i m not loyal to any brand, and for me the Sony RX1 and A7r are blowing away this T (and i have both this 2 cameras)

 

 

another point...Leica users , a customer that typically love street photography , a Cartier Bresson admirer (if not to say lover well they want to use a M rangefinder lens on a camera without any focus assist like has Sony, Fuji and other brands

 

for me impossible ...and even with the decent A7r focus assist for me its to slow for real street photography

 

for me T user catch just panoramas and portraits....HCB style of photography need another camera ...or Autofocus camera or a Rangfinder with a really experienced user that has a good ability to focus

 

i dont belive in Zone focus ...sorry this work good only in sunny days ......if there is few light i must push up iso to 400.000 to keep F11 ))))

i have also read your article about manual focus on T....for me is already poor this sony "zebra assist" while using manual lens .....

 

but maybe here i m the only one who do reportage type of photography and not static subjects

 

What exactly are you saying? That all mentioned cameras are too slow for you to allow you to shoot HCB style street, but you can achieve it with the M, but without using zone focus?

 

In this case I take the opposite position and say: These cameras (M,T,X,A7,Nex,RX1) are all so good that the camera should not be the limiting factor as long as you are not a sports shooter who needs long tele with continues AF.

[leicatraveller]

By the way: When the legendary Digilux 2 was introduced in 2004 it was the last camera with that 5 MP 2/3" Sony CCD of 2001 vintage; in 2003/2004 everyone else was switching to the 8 MP version of that sensor.

 

i agree on this, but anyway i m pragmatic, and what was possible to do in 2004 with digilux is far from what i can do now with A7r (i.e. a 1 mt long print at iso 3200-6400 iso.....)

 

its just pragmatism ...what i can do with a A7r is much superior on what i can do with a Leica T

[leicatraveller]

 

In this case I take the opposite position and say: These cameras (M,T,X,A7,Nex,RX1) are all so good that the camera should not be the limiting factor as long as you are not a sports shooter who needs long tele with continues AF.

 

to be truth no one of this camera are really perfect for fast street photography (except this few lucky person who are able to focus with a rangefinder on pair of fastest AF cameras)

 

i think much better for street cameras like Olympus OMD, Fuji XT1 and Nikon V3...sure not a A7r or a leica T using manual lens ....

 

since i worked many years ago as a sport photographer to be truth i find street subjects stressing the AF system more then sports scenes that are much more predictable

[tom0511]

to be truth no one of this camera are really perfect for fast street photography (except this few lucky person who are able to focus with a rangefinder on pair of fastest AF cameras)

 

i think much better for street cameras like Olympus OMD, Fuji XT1 and Nikon V3...sure not a A7r or a leica T using manual lens ....

 

since i worked many years ago as a sport photographer to be truth i find street subjects stressing the AF system more then sports scenes that are much more predictable

 

Sure a 5dIII or a Nikon D4 or a OMD have faster focus.

[leicatraveller]

Sure a 5dIII or a Nikon D4 or a OMD have faster focus.

 

sorry no one was talking about Nikon D4 or 5D MIII...no one want to compare a D4 to Leica T

 

the problem come when even a cheap sony A6000 that cost 3 times less come with a very good AF system, high resolution sensor, EVF......

[jlindstrom]

sorry no one was talking about Nikon D4 or 5D MIII...no one want to compare a D4 to Leica T

 

the problem come when even a cheap sony A6000 that cost 3 times less come with a very good AF system, high resolution sensor, EVF......

 

Indeed. But, as you most likely know, Leica isn't just about latest features and speed or bang for buck. It's also about pure photography feeling, quality lenses, quality build.. it's meant to be a tool that feels good to work with and provides simple & uncluttered user interface. It's a bit like driving old sports cars from the 70' or 80's - expensive, slower than current japanese crop but offers much more driving pleasure.

 

On paper the X loses to most competition, in intended use it'll hold it's own - even more so within it's target users group. Heck, even panny-Leica latest D-lux can challenge it technically.. but user experience, no contest.

 

//Juha

[tom0511]

sorry no one was talking about Nikon D4 or 5D MIII...no one want to compare a D4 to Leica T

 

the problem come when even a cheap sony A6000 that cost 3 times less come with a very good AF system, high resolution sensor, EVF......

 

Yes, higher resolution and faster AF. On the other side I personally prefer the simple T user interface, I believe the zoom is better than both the Sony and the Zeiss Zoom and I believe the color out of the T gives better skin tones.

No doubt the A6000 is an excellent camera for a very good value for the price and I wouldnt mind if the T had the AF of th A6000 and a built in viewfinder, but it is allready very good as it is.

[TK!]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

I am still not convinced of the sensor. I have a X1 and a X2. Most of the time take the X2 when going out for pictures. Fast AF, higher ISO etc., the X2 was a big step over the X1.

 

But since the very beginning I have the impression the very very very good shots more frequently come from my X1 and not the X2.

 

So is the X2 sensor really up to date?

 

- TK

[jlindstrom]

I don't think it's the X2 sensor to blame. The lens was designed for X1, so it's a better match.

 

Also higher mp count in small body needs more careful shooting than X1's 12mp - otherwise sharpness will suffer.

[larsv]

Got it yesterday. Only shot indoors so far. Files are very good and sharpness very, very crisp. Autofocus seems improved from X2. Color rendering very good in JPEG. Will take it for a walk today

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Maxx71]

I see that some folks are getting their Type 113's. Where the heck are you getting them from? It's only available for preorder in all the online vendors like B&H. I'd like to get mine ASAP.