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New owner, red edge problem with 18mm SE


jlam

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I just received my M9 last week and also got a new 18mm Super Elmar. I'm amazed by the corner to corner sharpness of the lens wide-open. But there is a problem with red/magenta color shift along the left edge (attached). I've checked that lens detection is working fine. Has anyone seen this before? I've sent an email to Leica CS and will see what they have to say.

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Hi,

 

Yes, Apparently it's seen with the Lecia 18mm, the Zeiss 18mm, the VC 15mm and 12mm using the M9. It's also possibly seen with some other lenses. Hopefully Leica will correct this with the next firmware update. A program called "Cornerfix" is able to deal with this in the meantime and is quite effective. I haven't used it yet on my files, but others who have tried it, said it virtually eliminates the red edge issue.

 

Dave (D&A)

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Correct, cornerfix does help but it is also necessary to shoot in dng uncompressed to reduce the red edge, I have the zeiss 18 mm with the same problem

bill

 

Hunh? Shooting in DNG doesn't do anything to reduce the problem, but you do want to shoot in DNG if you are going to correct it with Cornerfix.

 

FYI, to the OP, this is a well-known problem. The hope is that Leica will fix it in a firmware release.

 

Jeff

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I have the same problem with my coded 21mm Elmarit Asph.

 

If it's not fixed in the next firmware it will be a huge problem. I didn't spend $7k on a camera so I would then be forced to do extra corrections in post just to use a Leica wide angle lens.

 

The current situation is unacceptable. I've been using the 21 more often and also doing more color work--and it's a real headache to have to fix the photos.

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Hi Just a thought...

 

Since the red edge is partly due to overcorrection (in response to correcting for the IR sensor filter)....if one used an IR filter on top of say one of the 18's (with the M9)...I would suppose that the red edge might be reduced or eliminated....but unfortunately at the expense of the other side of the image (initially unaffected by red edge)..to now display shades of cyan. Correct me if I am worng. Thanks!

 

Dave (D&A)

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I have the same problem with my coded 21mm Elmarit Asph.

 

If it's not fixed in the next firmware it will be a huge problem. I didn't spend $7k on a camera so I would then be forced to do extra corrections in post just to use a Leica wide angle lens.

 

The current situation is unacceptable. I've been using the 21 more often and also doing more color work--and it's a real headache to have to fix the photos.

 

I wish Leica provides a way for us to do our own calibration in Lightroom (or better yet in the firmware), say by letting us shoot pictures of a white wall and have LR figure out the correction automatically. Kinda like what cornerfix does but integrated in the firmware/LR.

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Hi all,

Of course I have the same problem with my M9 + CV15 and CV21. So I use CornerFix . To generate a profile I shoot through an even lighted white plastic throw away plate , lenses uncoded or coded as 21 or as Wate for the CV15. I could not see any difference between the two methods . It works ; Shooting a white wall did not . PP with CAptureOne seems better then CR or LR2.6.1 or LR3Beta where the images are said "damaged" ,albeit I could not see any "damage". Cheers .

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I have seen some examples of red edge posted here. It is of course difficult to judge the severity of the problem without testing against a neutral target. So I used my bathroom door for target. These shots were done with bounce flash. All lenses at infinity and 5.6.

 

• 35mm Summilux ASPH.

• 25mm Biogon 2.8

• 18mm Distagon 4.0, in this order. Straight JPG files. Judge for yourself.

 

The old man from the Age of Redeye

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Hi Lars,

 

I'm still wondering if you (or someone else) performed the same test with the Zeiss 18mm, but instead put a UVIR filter on the lens...whether the left side red edge would be compensated for (since it's apparently due to overcorrection)....and the right side would only show possibly a hint of cyan...which is less offensive. Any change you might have a UVIR you could try this with? Thanks!

 

Dave (D&A)

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From what I know - testing with neutral and natural backgrounds - with the M8 and the Leica 3.8/18 there are big differences dependant on lighting (tungsten or other), exposure (much more severe with underexposure) and white balance (a little shift may cure it).

 

I hope the whole issue is solved soon. In the german forum somebody reported that beta testers of the new firmware could not reproduce it in 120 shots with the 3.8/18 but he could not tell anything about non-Leica lenses.

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I have seen some examples of red edge posted here. It is of course difficult to judge the severity of the problem without testing against a neutral target. So I used my bathroom door for target. These shots were done with bounce flash. All lenses at infinity and 5.6.

 

• 35mm Summilux ASPH.

• 25mm Biogon 2.8

• 18mm Distagon 4.0, in this order. Straight JPG files. Judge for yourself.

 

The old man from the Age of Redeye

 

What appears curious to me is the non-symmetry of the phenomenon... Why is it so, while the system is symmetric? Because the incident light (of the speedlight) is itself not captured in the axis of the lens?

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What appears curious to me is the non-symmetry of the phenomenon... Why is it so, while the system is symmetric? Because the incident light (of the speedlight) is itself not captured in the axis of the lens?

 

The "leftist-tendency" of the "red shift" is the most odd of many other unclear phenomenae of the whole issue. I don't know any convincing theory about this, and there are many theories in this forum.

Best advice seems to be, to stay patient for a couple of days until we see the new firmware, where it hopefully is solved.

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The "leftist-tendency" of the "red shift" is the most odd of many other unclear phenomenae of the whole issue. I don't know any convincing theory about this, and there are many theories in this forum.

Best advice seems to be, to stay patient for a couple of days until we see the new firmware, where it hopefully is solved.

 

So it is finally about to be released? Good thing, I'm as well about to get my M9...:cool:

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Hi Lars,

 

I'm still wondering if you (or someone else) performed the same test with the Zeiss 18mm, but instead put a UVIR filter on the lens...whether the left side red edge would be compensated for (since it's apparently due to overcorrection)....and the right side would only show possibly a hint of cyan...which is less offensive. Any change you might have a UVIR you could try this with? Thanks!

 

Dave (D&A)

 

It won't work, because this has nothing to do with IR light or IR pollution, but has everything to do with the in-camera corrections that are applied to deal with system vignetting, etc. Worse yet, using an IR filter with wide lenses on the M9 tends to exacerbate the "cyan drift" problem by allowing the camera to in effect over-correct. Leica themselves recommends NOT using the IR filters on the M9 for precisely this reason.

 

As everyone has said, this appears be a problem only with certain Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses, and the Leica 18/3.8. There are isolated reports of it with the old 21/2.8 11134 Leica lens as well. The unifying theme of these lenses seems to be that they are older, non-retrofocus designs. The theory is that the in-camera corrections are either under or overcorrecting for the angle of incidence issues with these lenses, hence the wish for a firmware fix of some kind.

 

Jeff

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