thompsonkirk Posted October 13, 2009 Share #1 Posted October 13, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I thought the M9 advertising blitz was just brilliant. But didn't Leica generate a kind of pent-up demand that's dribbling away? I didn't want to be the beta tester of a new model, but I did sell my backup M8u body - the one I hadn't succeeded in scratching or denting - for more than I expected, with the idea that I'd buy an M9 as soon as I was pretty sure they're more-or-less bug-free. But by now, I can't see how the very provocative ad campaign squares with the production & supply schedule. I can't imagine how Leica is gaining by rationing out a few cameras a week, with more & more people probably thinking as I do: Oh, well, I really can get by without it for a while; maybe I won't even need it. It was nice to have 2 bodies, but it's not much trouble to change lenses after all. Maybe one dented M8u is good enough for me. I looked on this sub-forum for some explanation of the short supply & didn't find any. Just the long Delivery Register thread. Did I miss something that others know? Kirk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 13, 2009 Posted October 13, 2009 Hi thompsonkirk, Take a look here Well, what happened (if anything)?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
thrice Posted October 13, 2009 Share #2 Posted October 13, 2009 I remember when the Canon 5D Mark II was announced, I ordered one (direct from Canon) as soon as possible, and it arrived 4 weeks later. Others struggled to get one for about 2-3 months. I see nothing too out of the ordinary here, only apple have hundreds of thousands of units of a product available at the time of announcement, and that only applies to ipods, not their computers. Supply should be steady in approximately February from my estimate... If you want one before then hurry up and place an order! If you have placed an order you should at least see it before xmas. Leica also suffered a delay waiting for a small vital component that wasn't available for a while, but this has been resolved (over a week ago) I'm told. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 13, 2009 Share #3 Posted October 13, 2009 I thought the M9 advertising blitz was just brilliant. But didn't Leica generate a kind of pent-up demand that's dribbling away? I didn't want to be the beta tester of a new model, but I did sell my backup M8u body - the one I hadn't succeeded in scratching or denting - for more than I expected, with the idea that I'd buy an M9 as soon as I was pretty sure they're more-or-less bug-free. But by now, I can't see how the very provocative ad campaign squares with the production & supply schedule. I can't imagine how Leica is gaining by rationing out a few cameras a week, with more & more people probably thinking as I do: Oh, well, I really can get by without it for a while; maybe I won't even need it. It was nice to have 2 bodies, but it's not much trouble to change lenses after all. Maybe one dented M8u is good enough for me. I looked on this sub-forum for some explanation of the short supply & didn't find any. Just the long Delivery Register thread. Did I miss something that others know? Kirk Hi Kirk, It is limited simply by their production capacity. The cameras are still largely hand assembled and tested in one section of a small factory. I'm sure they'd love to have more going out there right now but, having now seen the assembly line up close, I understand why they can only produce so many per day. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelico Posted October 13, 2009 Share #4 Posted October 13, 2009 The demand for M9 is much higher than it was for M8. Leica has to cope with orders from ex-M8 users, then people who skipped M8 and user of M8 who want M9 as their primary camera with M8 as a back up. European and US dealers have already list of 30 to 40+ orders which will be fulfilled by January 2010 and Asian dealers have much longer lists, with estimate that they will deliver all by February 2010. Its going to take long time until they have steady supply and availability in shops. My guess is April/May next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thompsonkirk Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted October 24, 2009 I'm still skeptical. Weren't they supposed to make 1000 a month? So there are 5000 back orders to be filled by February? I find it hard to believe either that (a) they're making 1000 a month, or that ( 5000 customers have order them. Kirk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelico Posted October 24, 2009 Share #6 Posted October 24, 2009 I'm still skeptical. Weren't they supposed to make 1000 a month? So there are 5000 back orders to be filled by February? I find it hard to believe either that (a) they're making 1000 a month, or that ( 5000 customers have order them. Kirk I am sure that there are more than 5000 units ordered. Just by calling few dealers and hearing how long their order lists are, it was easy to understand. But production of 1000 units per month is not what Leica is managing to do. I think that they have a serious problems and they are producing much less than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemeng Posted October 24, 2009 Share #7 Posted October 24, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) [...]But production of 1000 units per month is not what Leica is managing to do. I think that they have a serious problems and they are producing much less than that. Agree. My estimate is that they have made maybe 200-300 since late August. Mind you, according to Fanboys it isn't a problem. "Just be patient"... I'm sure this episode will go down in marketing lore as "How to fumble a brilliant product and instead shoot yourself in both feet and then trash your brand". Am trying really hard to see the bright side in all this =) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted October 24, 2009 Share #8 Posted October 24, 2009 Am trying really hard to see the bright side in all this =) That its much faster than the S2 release? That it won't be as problem ridden as the M8 release? People are now used to a whole new price structure to cover the sins of incom .... of .... whatever it was that ate the revinue from what should have been a solid product? A little faith, hope and charity please, Andrew. Instead of heaving in your soup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelico Posted October 24, 2009 Share #9 Posted October 24, 2009 I'm sure this episode will go down in marketing lore as "How to fumble a brilliant product and instead shoot yourself in both feet and then trash your brand". Exactly, if you do a quick calculation on profitability of M9 with 200-300 units produced per month, together with few S2 that will only start in January and taking into consideration that Leica slowed down substantially production of M7 and MP to accommodate new production line for M9 I can’t imagine that they can even pay the salaries for (as reported) 1098 employees. We are looking for increase of price of M9 ( and other Leica products) starting January for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted October 24, 2009 Share #10 Posted October 24, 2009 I'm still skeptical. Weren't they supposed to make 1000 a month? So there are 5000 back orders to be filled by February? I find it hard to believe either that (a) they're making 1000 a month, or that ( 5000 customers have order them. Kirk They sold steadily more or less 10.000 M per year since years. There is nothing to "believe" here. Lucien Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_b Posted October 24, 2009 Share #11 Posted October 24, 2009 I'm sure this episode will go down in marketing lore as "How to fumble a brilliant product and instead shoot yourself in both feet and then trash your brand". Exactly, if you do a quick calculation on profitability of M9 with 200-300 units produced per month, together with few S2 that will only start in January and taking into consideration that Leica slowed down substantially production of M7 and MP to accommodate new production line for M9 I can’t imagine that they can even pay the salaries for (as reported) 1098 employees. We are looking for increase of price of M9 ( and other Leica products) starting January for sure. Whether Leica increase their price for pre-ordered units remains to be seen but would a PR disaster - BIG TIME. Plus of course UK VAT will rise back to 17.5% from 1 January or maybe more to say 20% from the current 15%. If that happens those in the pre-ordered queue will be "hopping mad!". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 24, 2009 Share #12 Posted October 24, 2009 Kewl, we can now also blame Leica for the crappy decisions of the UK Govt! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelico Posted October 24, 2009 Share #13 Posted October 24, 2009 Whether Leica increase their price for pre-ordered units remains to be seen but would a PR disaster - BIG TIME. Plus of course UK VAT will rise back to 17.5% from 1 January or maybe more to say 20% from the current 15%. If that happens those in the pre-ordered queue will be "hopping mad!". If you order and paid for M9 now they can't charge you more, that's for sure. But UK VAT definitely goes up, and traditionally Leica raise their prices every year a bit. Demand for M9 is a great surprise for Leica as well as production limitation of Solms factory is surprise for all of us. They have (reported somewhere else on this forum) 8000 units on order. Their factory works from 7am until midnight and (from a blogger who visited factory recently) and has production of app. 1000 units per month (if they have all the parts available). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 24, 2009 Share #14 Posted October 24, 2009 So many Leica CEO wannabees - so few employment opportunites! I love the overkill language: "Disaster, fumble, trash, fanboys" - you guys really have been taking lessons from Rush and the Fox News crowd, haven't you? There are huge waiting lists but the demand is just dribbling away? Parse that sentiment semantically for me. Reminds me of the old Woody Allen joke about two old ladies at a mountain resort: "The food here is just terrible - and such small portions!" I was silly; I was gullible; I believed the M9 rumors once they became fairly consistent (and a French store leaked some specs & price); I was willing to be a first adopter and gamma-tester. So I preordered a month before 9/9/09 - and have had an M9 for five weeks. If you wanted to drag your feet, see what Leica actually announced, see some reviews, let someone else do the beta testing - and now are miffed because you can't jump to the front of the line - TFS, baby! I cut the ANZACs a little slack because they are always at the end of a long supply line for import items...and Andrew Nemeth even more, for his great site (best instructions ever for loading a film M). But your numbers are wrong, Andrew, and your conclusion even more so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemeng Posted October 24, 2009 Share #15 Posted October 24, 2009 SI cut the ANZACs a little slack because they are always at the end of a long supply line for import items...and Andrew Nemeth even more, for his great site (best instructions ever for loading a film M). But your numbers are wrong, Andrew, and your conclusion even more so. So Andy - where can I buy a new Leica M9 right now?... (Silence) QED mate =) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem7 Posted October 24, 2009 Share #16 Posted October 24, 2009 My M9 was ordered two months before it was announced. I heard about it from someone who had one and was shooting it and giving me daily reports. I let my dealer know I wanted one so I was at the near top of his list. Anyway, mine arrived two weeks ago and my dealer now has a list of 60+ people waiting. Between 0 and 2 trickle in per week right now but I have heard November/December will be big months for M9 shipments. Again, this is what I have heard so don't take it as fact. If orders were placed after 09/09 then there will be waits as they are filling the orders to those who ordered BEFORE 09/09 since those people are at the top of the lists. You probably won't be able to go into a store and buy an M9 off the shelf until Feb/March 2010. Thats my guess as to when all of these pre-orders will be filled. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_b Posted October 24, 2009 Share #17 Posted October 24, 2009 Kewl, we can now also blame Leica for the crappy decisions of the UK Govt! No, but it is the resal world and 'democracy' that I live in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanidel Posted October 24, 2009 Share #18 Posted October 24, 2009 I was silly; I was gullible; I believed the M9 rumors once they became fairly consistent (and a French store leaked some specs & price); I was willing to be a first adopter and gamma-tester. So I preordered a month before 9/9/09 - and have had an M9 for five weeks. If you wanted to drag your feet, see what Leica actually announced, see some reviews, let someone else do the beta testing - and now are miffed because you can't jump to the front of the line - TFS, baby! Your comments are a bit easy because : - many shops in Europe do not take pre-orders of products that have not been announced. It is not a business habit. When I called my dealer to ask if I could pre-order based on the rumours, they told me " We will do that on 09/09". - I know several people that were very high on dealer lists in France. And none have received their cameras. I am #1 too, but bad luck, I am after a grey. So my take is that you have been lucky, no more gullible or smarter than others Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaS2 Posted October 24, 2009 Share #19 Posted October 24, 2009 Perhaps the small but critical part from a sub supplier was the sensor from Kodak? Ramp up on new sensor yield can be slower than Leica wanted? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted October 25, 2009 Share #20 Posted October 25, 2009 "So Andy - where can I buy a new Leica M9 right now?..." probably the same place you can tickets for this in Sydney... BIG DAY OUT 2010 - Music Festival - Auckland, Gold Coast, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth As I said: "If you wanted to drag your feet, see what Leica actually announced, see some reviews, let someone else do the beta testing - and now are miffed because you can't jump to the front of the line..." Where can you buy a Canon dMk.4? I just found a Panny GH-1 for the first time in a store today - and that was announced in April. B&H still says "backordered". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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