New M9 - with column defect

[Googaliser]

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Well - first light on my new M9 didn't go exactly as I had hoped.

At ISO 800 I noticed a purple vertical line of pixels starting roughly 2/3 height and straight down (noticeable at 100% crop). More obvious at high ISO.

Closer inspection shows there to be two.

They appear on JPEG & RAW and are static.

Looks like 2 column defects to me (encountered them before on astro ccds). Sending back to the shop tomorrow. Unfortunately the M9 isn't really something they can swap-out while you wait - back to the waiting game I guess.

 

Very disappointing quality control here Kodak/Leica.

 

Will post an update tomorrow with some images.

 

Rgds

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[Shootist]

Sorry to hear this. You aren't the only one. There was a report of this the first day the camera became available.

 

Maybe Leica doesn't care that a $7000US camera has defects right out of the box that make the camera unusable/useless and then expects the user, the person that just spent all that money, to send in the camera for repair.

 

Watch this very closely because this has been a ongoing problem with the M8. Recently a person sent his out of warranty M8 for repair of this problem and Leica wanted to charge him $1200 for sensor replacement. Luckily for him he had just bought this camera from a dealer and originally notified the dealer of the problem and then when Leica wanted to charge him he returned it to the dealer.

 

This is a known problem with the M8 and it seems it will be with the M9.

 

Please notify the dealer that you want your money back or a new camera shipped out to you as soon as they receive the bad one back, IE the same day. If neither of those thing happen contact your CC company and file a dispute on the charges.

[jonoslack]

HI There

I'm sorry about your problem with column defects.

As I understand it, this is a case of mapping out the offending pixel(s). I think it's a pity that Leica don't do this automatically like Olympus do.

 

Hopefully they'll get you a replacement pretty fast.

 

Shootist, I'm sure that Leica do care very much - if there are problems it costs them too.

[Shootist]

HI There

I'm sorry about your problem with column defects.

As I understand it, this is a case of mapping out the offending pixel(s). I think it's a pity that Leica don't do this automatically like Olympus do.

 

Hopefully they'll get you a replacement pretty fast.

 

Shootist, I'm sure that Leica do care very much - if there are problems it costs them too.

 

Jono

On 2 of the 4 M8's I've had both had this problem. Luckily for me both were still in the warranty period and both had the sensor changed, no mapping out of the lines. On one of them it was a brand new camera the other in my hands for 19 months.

This is clearly a sensor and or sensor electronics problem and can be detected very easily if they only looked for it, and way before the sensor goes into a camera.

Now I don't know if it is a Leica QC problem, a Kodak sensor problem or the company (Subcontractor) (Jenoptic??) Leica is using to do the elctronics board that sits behind the senosr problem or a combination of all three.

 

Leica is supposed to be the best. This has not been proven lately.

 

A short time ago there was a whole shipment of 75mm Summicrons that had the aperture ring put on upside down, IE the numbers where on the bottom of the lens.

Just how is that not a total FUBAR in quality control.

[ho_co]

A short time ago there was a whole shipment of 75mm Summicrons that had the aperture ring put on upside down, IE the numbers where on the bottom of the lens.

Ed, that's just a simple slip-up. The gnomes just installed the rings so they could read them, poor little guys.

 

 

Interesting story that I hadn't heard, BTW. Do you have a source?

 

I wonder how big the "whole shipment" was. When I worked for Rockleigh, we would sometimes get in a shipment of a heavily backordered lens that consisted of just a handful, literally.

[reven]

I would be really careful about Leica support and repairs, they are trying to make money as much as possible. I have a few of these cases but the best is still the following:

 

Brand new 75 lux, just taken out of the box and used for some testing. It had quite a focus mismatch, so I send it to Leica for calibration with my second m8. Guess what ? The answer I get, is that this NEW LUX, had a internal damage from being dropped and the repair cost would have been 1400EURs. Sorry WHAT ? When I got the lens back, it had a DENT in the lens hood.I just though WTF. Luckily my dealer just took the lens back and gave me a new one. I learned one thing from that and other cases. Never send something again to Leica directly. Money*******....

 

Just let your dealer deal with the problem, that works so much better.

[250swb]

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A short time ago there was a whole shipment of 75mm Summicrons that had the aperture ring put on upside down, IE the numbers where on the bottom of the lens.

Just how is that not a total FUBAR in quality control.

 

So why were people complaining? Seems to me that in twenty years time you've got yourself a mega rare museum piece that is worth a mint? I'm sure with enough hype other legendary qualities could be assigned to it, like backwards bokeh.

 

Steve

[UliWer]

....

Leica is supposed to be the best. This has not been proven lately.

 

A short time ago there was a whole shipment of 75mm Summicrons that had the aperture ring put on upside down, IE the numbers where on the bottom of the lens.

Just how is that not a total FUBAR in quality control.

 

Do you mean this case:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/89722-my-new-apo-summicron-75-asph.html#post940053 ?

 

Where does your information about a "whole shipment" come from?

[jonoslack]

Jono

On 2 of the 4 M8's I've had both had this problem. Luckily for me both were still in the warranty period and both had the sensor changed, no mapping out of the lines. On one of them it was a brand new camera the other in my hands for 19 months.

This is clearly a sensor and or sensor electronics problem and can be detected very easily if they only looked for it, and way before the sensor goes into a camera.

Now I don't know if it is a Leica QC problem, a Kodak sensor problem or the company (Subcontractor) (Jenoptic??) Leica is using to do the elctronics board that sits behind the senosr problem or a combination of all three.

 

Leica is supposed to be the best. This has not been proven lately.

 

 

Of course, I don't know the issue with your M8's. However, I do know that at least some line defects can be mapped out - I also know that it can't necessarily be detected very easily before the sensor goes in the camera.

 

The test camera I was using had such a defect (with a single hot pixel as well) this was worse at high ISO . . . it wasn't present when the camera first arrived, and after two or three weeks it disappeared again.

 

I'm not suggesting that you're wrong - but things aren't always as simple as they may seem.

[BRJR]

Did, you check to see that your M9 has the latest firmware version installed? As, I received my M9 with the old firmware and, updated it myself, with the more recent version as available for download on the Leica.com web site.

[Shootist]

Ed, that's just a simple slip-up. The gnomes just installed the rings so they could read them, poor little guys.

 

 

Interesting story that I hadn't heard, BTW. Do you have a source?

 

I wonder how big the "whole shipment" was. When I worked for Rockleigh, we would sometimes get in a shipment of a heavily backordered lens that consisted of just a handful, literally.

 

Ok Howard here you go.

First one.

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/89722-my-new-apo-summicron-75-asph.html

 

And then after he sent the first one back this what he got.

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/90799-my-new-defective-apo-summicron-75-a.html

 

If you read down the second thread you will see the whole shipment to B&H was defective. Whether or not other shipments around the world were the same or not I don't know.

In the first thread the OP shows a picture of the lens with the QC assurance card signed by one of the gnomes. A lot of good that did.

 

The real bad part is that Leica NJ and Leica Solms knew (found out) about this and did absolutely nothing to rectify the matter other then to say to the buyer "Send it back for another". What they should of done is shipped the owner a NEW, Completely checked out, lens and pulled the stock from around the worlsd until the problem was fixed.

But since Leica doesn't really care about it's customers or quality control none of that was done.

 

EDIT:

I just read part of one of those threads, the first one, and Stefan Daniel did reply to it but he asked the OP (buyer/owner) of the lens to send it to him personally in Solms. The OP being in the USA I think since he bought the lens at B&H would of had to pay for international shipping. Leica should of sent a call ticket to get that lens.

[Googaliser]

Did, you check to see that your M9 has the latest firmware version installed? As, I received my M9 with the old firmware and, updated it myself, with the more recent version as available for download on the Leica.com web site.

 

Hi - yes it did. I'm used to using FF astro CCDs so can spot a column defect at 100 paces, and the difference in presentation to blooming, hot pixels and processing issues.

 

Good news though - Richard Caplan (UK) swapped the body out this morning with a replacement. Now that's what I call service....

 

Thanks for all your feedback. Always worth doing a high ISO, high magnification inspection of any new CCD imager - particularly one as complex as the M9's unit.

....Although this time I performed it in the shop !

 

Regards

[Shootist]

Glad to hear the dealer had a second camera to give you and that AFAYK has no defects.

 

Sorry for the poor soul who should of gotten your replacement camera.

[jonoslack]

Glad to hear the dealer had a second camera to give you and that AFAYK has no defects.

 

Sorry for the poor soul who should of gotten your replacement camera.

 

Richard Caplan has a good name . . .perhaps they keep a couple of cameras back for just this purpose.

[UliWer]

Ok Howard here you go.

First one.

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/89722-my-new-apo-summicron-75-asph.html

 

And then after he sent the first one back this what he got.

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/90799-my-new-defective-apo-summicron-75-a.html

 

If you read down the second thread you will see the whole shipment to B&H was defective. Whether or not other shipments around the world were the same or not I don't know.

In the first thread the OP shows a picture of the lens with the QC assurance card signed by one of the gnomes. A lot of good that did.

 

The real bad part is that Leica NJ and Leica Solms knew (found out) about this and did absolutely nothing to rectify the matter other then to say to the buyer "Send it back for another". What they should of done is shipped the owner a NEW, Completely checked out, lens and pulled the stock from around the worlsd until the problem was fixed.

But since Leica doesn't really care about it's customers or quality control none of that was done.

 

EDIT:

I just read part of one of those threads, the first one, and Stefan Daniel did reply to it but he asked the OP (buyer/owner) of the lens to send it to him personally in Solms. The OP being in the USA I think since he bought the lens at B&H would of had to pay for international shipping. Leica should of sent a call ticket to get that lens.

 

Did you read the OP (buyer's) reply on what Stefan Daniel wrote?

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/89722-my-new-apo-summicron-75-asph-2.html#post940671

 

You are right that Leica should take more care that those things won't happen and if they happen should do everything for recompensation.

 

Saying this is not the same as saying that "Leica doesn't really care about it's customers or quality control".

[Shootist]

Richard Caplan has a good name . . .perhaps they keep a couple of cameras back for just this purpose.

 

 

Isn't that a sad commentary on Leica quality control and the Leica brand in general, for a dealer to hold cameras back from a sale just to cover possible defects in the cameras they actually sell.

 

Look I am a Leica fan. Right now, and for the past 3 years, it is the only camera I use and own at this time (M8). But this is completely ridiculous.

 

Could be why B&H here in the states don't have any M9 for sale. They are waiting for the problems to go away, maybe go away, before they actually get some and then sell them and then have to take them back.

 

Of course you are all for Leica, you got a M9 for free (I think). If Leica gave me a M9 I wouldn't post to threads like this with my experiences and reference other posts that show the total lack of QC and concern for the end users of there products.

 

I'm just about ready to send off my 75mm Cron to have the aperture ring tightened up. It has been loose since the first day I got it. I had already sent it in once to Leica NJ and they stated that it had to go back to Germany for that to be adjusted. I had just gotten the lens one month before that first trip and didn't want to be without the lens. Now I feel the need to have it done because it is coming up on the 3 year passport warranty and during the winter months I can be without it. But I will wait until 2010 just to let the dust settle from the M9.

[jonoslack]

How many things can you get wrong in one post

Isn't that a sad commentary on Leica quality control and the Leica brand in general, for a dealer to hold cameras back from a sale just to cover possible defects in the cameras they actually sell..

Of course it isn't, it's called service . . . which is what you're complaining about.

Look I am a Leica fan. Right now, and for the past 3 years, it is the only camera I use and own at this time (M8). But this is completely ridiculous.

What's ridiculous? - the OP gets his camera replaced in 24 hours and you're complaining?

The incorrect lens was replaced immediately and your complaining?

 

Could be why B&H here in the states don't have any M9 for sale. They are waiting for the problems to go away, maybe go away, before they actually get some and then sell them and then have to take them back.

Of course it isn't - the reason they don't have any is because they've sold everything they've been shipped - just like Richard Caplan and RG Lewis and all the other dealers.

Of course you are all for Leica, you got a M9 for free (I think). If Leica gave me a M9 I wouldn't post to threads like this with my experiences and reference other posts that show the total lack of QC and concern for the end users of there products.

Whatever gave you the idea that I got an M9 for free ?! I currently have one on order in the UK.

I'm certainly all for Leica - I think the M9 is a great camera, and I spent a lot of time testing it. I made it scrupulously clear in my report that that was the case.

Your examples of their 'total lack of concern' seems to amount to two people who have had their kit replaced immediately!.

I'm just about ready to send off my 75mm Cron to have the aperture ring tightened up. It has been loose since the first day I got it. I had already sent it in once to Leica NJ and they stated that it had to go back to Germany for that to be adjusted. I had just gotten the lens one month before that first trip and didn't want to be without the lens. Now I feel the need to have it done because it is coming up on the 3 year passport warranty and during the winter months I can be without it. But I will wait until 2010 just to let the dust settle from the M9.

Of course, the passport warranty is another example of their total lack of concern! I guess that CNS give a 5 year warranty free of charge!?

 

Talk about glass half empty!

[Guest EarlBurrellPhoto]

I disagree that Leica don't care about quality control. I think they are flabbergasted and flummoxed. I would not be surprised if it all boils down to costcutting constraints placed by the beancounters, just as led to the deletion of the top-plate display and sapphire screen. There's an old addage "you have to spend money to make money" which evidently is not taught in business college anymore.

 

 

Of course, the passport warranty is another example of their total lack of concern! I guess that CNS give a 5 year warranty free of charge!?

 

 

In North America there is no Passport on the M8 or M9, only the M7 and MP and lenses. Granted there is a 2-year factory-defect warranty vs 1 year for Canikon. My own experience however has been that my Canons have never needed it, whilst both of my M8s did. Also despite being a pro-service registree, Leica USA (AFAIK there is no longer a Canadian agency) sadly informed me on both occasions that they would not be able to supply me with a loaner whilst mine were in the shop, and in both cases they remained in the shop for 2+ months.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Shootist]

Sorry but you just don't get it. This should NEVER happen.

We are talking about a custom camera and lens builder and one that charges a lot for there products. For any of them to be faulty right out of the box is totally ridiculous.

You can spin it anyway you want and make excuses for the lack of QC and concern but that does not change any of the facts.

Service! What service. If you call sending a brand new camera off for repair and then waiting 2-3 MONTHS to get it back service I certainly don't want to see what you might call LACK of service. Of course even if you didn't get a M9 for free you will get special treatment for any and all repairs.

 

Lets just say you and I don't agree on this topic and the thread is dead anyway since the OP got a replacement.

 

Have a good day.

 

How many things can you get wrong in one post

 

Of course it isn't, it's called service . . . which is what you're complaining about.

 

What's ridiculous? - the OP gets his camera replaced in 24 hours and you're complaining?

The incorrect lens was replaced immediately and your complaining?

 

 

Of course it isn't - the reason they don't have any is because they've sold everything they've been shipped - just like Richard Caplan and RG Lewis and all the other dealers.

 

Whatever gave you the idea that I got an M9 for free ?! I currently have one on order in the UK.

I'm certainly all for Leica - I think the M9 is a great camera, and I spent a lot of time testing it. I made it scrupulously clear in my report that that was the case.

Your examples of their 'total lack of concern' seems to amount to two people who have had their kit replaced immediately!.

 

Of course, the passport warranty is another example of their total lack of concern! I guess that CNS give a 5 year warranty free of charge!?

 

Talk about glass half empty!

[35mmSummicron]

I would have to agree with Shootist here, especially when Leica cameras and lenses are hand assembled and cameras come with a SIGNED card stating they are rigorously inspected by a specific person at Leica for quality control.......

 

just my two cents....

 

.a

 

Sorry but you just don't get it. This should NEVER happen.

We are talking about a custom camera and lens builder and one that charges a lot for there products. For any of them to be faulty right out of the box is totally ridiculous.

You can spin it anyway you want and make excuses for the lack of QC and concern but that does not change any of the facts.

Service! What service. If you call sending a brand new camera off for repair and then waiting 2-3 MONTHS to get it back service I certainly don't want to see what you might call LACK of service. Of course even if you didn't get a M9 for free you will get special treatment for any and all repairs.

 

Lets just say you and I don't agree on this topic and the thread is dead anyway since the OP got a replacement.

 

Have a good day.