Leica M2 model - odd combination of features for serial number

[imperfiction]

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Hi all,

 

I've been lucky enough to purchase a very nice user grade Leica m2 recently to complement my digital workflow. I am not a collector but out of curiosity, I went into the Leica pocket book to check the history of the device and according to the serial number 956865, my copy should in fact be a M1. Moreover, mine has a strange combination of features - it has a self-timer but of all variations of the m2, the one with self-timer came with the lever for the rewind and mine has the button-type rewind.

 

Are such deviations from the regular likely or is mine simply a combination of spare parts? Is it still possible to explain how a M1 serial number ended up on an M2 (also clearly engraved M2)?

 

Cheers,

KM

[earleygallery]

There are many anomalies with Leica serial numbers. Also many cameras were modified later in life, either by the factory or by others using parts from broken cameras.

 

Is the camera engraved as M2? Any photos? I'm sure others will reply in more detail.

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[chris_livsey]

Catalogue No: 10,800 or "KOOHE" was without the self timer and catalogue No: 10,308 or KOOHV" had the self timer. Price for those two bodies effective 26.8.60 was US $234 and $246

The Self timer was an option on both the button and early lever rewind models. It only became standard equipment circa 1961.

 

With a nice picture as well: Leica M2 Silver Rangefinder Camera Button Rewind with Self Timer 12D084 | eBay

 

 

Here is the concise M2 history which also states the S/T was an option in early production. As above if "missing" Leica would add it alter on request. Personally I prefer my M2s without as I find the grip more comfortable.

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/M2

 

As stated Leica serial numbers are not set in stone the lists are compiled from sources which are not entirely reliable, the factory is included in that statement

 

It may be worth posting the number query in the Collectors forum, there are experts there who may know of specific anomalies.Indeed on checking the WIKI list, linked above states that within the M1 list ^^ Camera 956889 is M2 (button rewind). You obviously have another anomaly !!

Edited September 29, 2013 by chris_livsey

[imperfiction]

Thank you both for the reply!

 

I am really happy with the M2 and the grip and I prefer the sound of the shutter to the sound of the M7 honestly. I was a little surprised that the focusing distance is only between n1 and infinity instead of the 0.7 but I guess I should have read about this earlier. And I love that it has a self-timer - something I've missed on my film Leica work.

[chris_livsey]

The "trick" with the self timer is to use it for short long exposures

That is for say 1/15th ish. You set the timer for a short delay and the timer release allows a full grip in both hands of the camera with no downward pressure of the release button. It is reported to help shake but obviously not for "the" moment unless you have super anticipation.

Do enjoy the M2 my favourite M.

[james.liam]

Serial number consistency and Leica don't go together. I bought an M6 with a .85 finder a while back but with a serial number of 17xxxxx, far earlier than what is typically noted for that finder magnification (24xxxxx or thereabouts). Thought it peculiar until I ran into a pro I know and took a gander at his M6 .85 he bought new in the mid-90’s. Also in the 17xxxxx series.

 

Go figure.

Edited October 4, 2013 by james.liam

[chris_livsey]

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James. your camera was probably a stock model 0.72 which was sent in to the factory for conversion, a standard swop they did a number of. You should have asked the pro if he had sent his in for conversion, if it was 0.85 from new and if he had that number from new. A top plate swop is possible from non Leica repairers.

There are a few, literally we are talking 3, pre- production pre 2,414xxx block 0.85 cameras most sources give the pre TTL 0.85 production at just over 3,000 so they are not common whatever the serial the number. Unknown how many factory conversions were done, or indeed could still be done.

 

From: http://www.cameraquest.com/m685.htm

 

Keep in mind that M6 serial numbers are engraved on the hot shoe, not the top plate like the M4 and earlier cameras. This makes it very easy to change a serial number on a body, if there is a need for whatever reason. Without access to factory records, it remains to be seen if the cameras prior to the 2,414xxx serial block were indeed made first, or if Leica was simply using up a few old serial numbers that had not been issued before. Alas, another possibility is an attempt to conceal the original number

 

My addition:- the concealment could be to sell a stolen camera using a flash shoe from a user or discarded repair, not making any accusations here BTW.

Edited October 4, 2013 by chris_livsey

[joeswe]

I was a little surprised that the focusing distance is only between n1 and infinity instead of the 0.7 but I guess I should have read about this earlier.

 

What lens do you use? All M2s should focus down to 0.7 meters if the lens allows for it. If yours doesn't, then it's either the lens has a different close focus limit or there is something wrong with the rangefinder mechanism. You say the S/N belongs to a M1. The M1->M2 conversion was a standard factory upgrade offered by Leitz at the time and I assume that the S/N was kept on these upgraded bodies. The M1 is more or less identical with the M2 except for the missing rangefinder mechanism.

[james.liam]

James. your camera was probably a stock model 0.72 which was sent in to the factory for conversion, a standard swop they did a number of. You should have asked the pro if he had sent his in for conversion, if it was 0.85 from new and if he had that number from new. A top plate swop is possible from non Leica repairers.

There are a few, literally we are talking 3, pre- production pre 2,414xxx block 0.85 cameras most sources give the pre TTL 0.85 production at just over 3,000 so they are not common whatever the serial the number. Unknown how many factory conversions were done, or indeed could still be done.

 

From: Leica M6 .85 Variations

 

Keep in mind that M6 serial numbers are engraved on the hot shoe, not the top plate like the M4 and earlier cameras. This makes it very easy to change a serial number on a body, if there is a need for whatever reason. Without access to factory records, it remains to be seen if the cameras prior to the 2,414xxx serial block were indeed made first, or if Leica was simply using up a few old serial numbers that had not been issued before. Alas, another possibility is an attempt to conceal the original number

 

 

I thought the above was the case as well, but the pro said that he bought the camera brand-new from an authorized Leica dealer.

[imperfiction]

What lens do you use? All M2s should focus down to 0.7 meters if the lens allows for it. If yours doesn't' date=' then it's either the lens has a different close focus limit or there is something wrong with the rangefinder mechanism. You say the S/N belongs to a M1. The M1->M2 conversion was a standard factory upgrade offered by Leitz at the time and I assume that the S/N was kept on these upgraded bodies. The M1 is more or less identical with the M2 except for the missing rangefinder mechanism.[/quote']

 

Thanks for the reply! I am using modern days 35 summicron asph and 50 summilux asph so it isn't the lenses. To be fair, the mechanism is engaged by the lens at about 0.9 meters and it does focus properly at infinity. BUT I am still finishing through the roll of film I put in it, which will give the true test to it's focusing accuracy.

[joeswe]

Thanks for the reply! I am using modern days 35 summicron asph and 50 summilux asph so it isn't the lenses. To be fair, the mechanism is engaged by the lens at about 0.9 meters and it does focus properly at infinity. BUT I am still finishing through the roll of film I put in it, which will give the true test to it's focusing accuracy.

 

Interesting ... That sounds a bit like an M3 rangefinder, which kicks in at 0.9 meters or thereabouts, but you would surely have noticed the missing 35mm framelines

I don't know much about the M1->M2 factory upgrades (except for the fact that they exist), and although I would find it difficult to believe, maybe there was some kind of limitation when the M2 rangefinder was transplanted to the M1?

[TomB_tx]

There is an adjustable stop that limits the rangefinder follower movement outward (close focus) that is adjusted during camera setup, and if mis-set it can limit the close focus action. I had my M6 serviced and it then only focused to about 0.8 meter instead of 0.7. Since the service took a year I haven't bothered to send it back.