Sloanfiske Posted September 11, 2013 Share #1 Posted September 11, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) So, i happen to have a 1969 (per the serial number dating system) Dual Range 50mm. I'm wondering if this lens had the same element structure and make up of the v3 or if it still sticks to the tried and true late 50's-60's model as launched. I cant seem to get any definite answers from anything i've read. It takes fantastic photos though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 11, 2013 Posted September 11, 2013 Hi Sloanfiske, Take a look here Late Build Dual Range 50mm question (1969). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted September 11, 2013 Share #2 Posted September 11, 2013 (edited) Welcome to the forum !!! Afaik , all the Summicron DR have the 7 elements design, which had at least 3 different implementations in terms of glasses and geometry of elements("Thorium", "Lanthanum 1, "Lanthanum 2"), plus variants in coating (with the famous "radioactive" version... which started as Summitar*) ; this suggests that there was a sort of coexistence of the two designs, having the 6 elements version been introduced in 1969 : Lager says that the DR was listed until 1973 in the US catalog and I trust him: but this, imho, does not necessarly mean that the two versions were also "co-produced"... in those healthy times Leitz could afford to produce large stocks (expecially for famous-mass lenses like the Summicron) and keep them on pricelist for years after production; also, they took much care on maintenance, surely keeping the capability to make (and stock) spares of glass elements and mounts. Our Wiki area suggests that the 6 elements/ 5 group design (69-78/9) was made also in DR version... but I think it isn't correct (note that this version focused to 28" on M2/M4... not so more than the 19/20" of the DR), even if I am far for pretending to be an authority about...the noble story of the Summicron 50 is long, complex and still in course. (BTW : Mods... this is a typical thread for the Historical area) Edited September 11, 2013 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 11, 2013 Share #3 Posted September 11, 2013 So it is... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloanfiske Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share #4 Posted September 11, 2013 thanks for the welcome and thanks for the insight. takes fantastic images. i had a rigid, which was nice, but this one sort of fell into my lap and have been pretty kicked over by it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 11, 2013 Share #5 Posted September 11, 2013 thanks for the welcome and thanks for the insight. takes fantastic images. i had a rigid, which was nice, but this one sort of fell into my lap and have been pretty kicked over by it. They had this fame ...and I believe strongly in this... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 13, 2013 Share #6 Posted September 13, 2013 JC, what do you think about the "6 elements DR" ? Did it exist ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted September 13, 2013 Share #7 Posted September 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) AFAIK the last batch of DR was the one built for the M2-R. All 7-lenses, chrome, last serial n. of this batch was 2235800. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 13, 2013 Share #8 Posted September 13, 2013 JC, what do you think about the "6 elements DR" ? Did it exist ? Luigi, I second sabears 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 14, 2013 Share #9 Posted September 14, 2013 AFAIK the last batch of DR was the one built for the M2-R. All 7-lenses, chrome, last serial n. of this batch was 2235800. To illustrate it visually (James Lager) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/212580-late-build-dual-range-50mm-question-1969/?do=findComment&comment=2420614'>More sharing options...
Sloanfiske Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share #10 Posted September 14, 2013 It's a 235#### serial on that photo. roughly the same number as mine. interesting. that would put it past the last of the DR for the M2-R wouldnt it in the 223####? mystery continues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 14, 2013 Share #11 Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) Accordingly to Erwin Puts and his production records : 2233801 - 2235800 Summicron f= 5 cm 1:2 (M-rigid+DR-chrom) 1967 2000 2278751 - 2279750 Summicron f= 5 cm 1:2 (SKF-chrom+DR) 1968 1000 2356301 - 2358300 Summicron f= 5 cm 1:2 (SFK-DR-chrom) 1969 2000 The "questionable" DRs are the ones within the last two batches, which, apparently, do belong to the 6 elements version : the above picture demonstrates that indeed there are DRs with those numbers... but the same picture suggests also that it is a "normal" 7 elements version (though the unscrewable lens unit of the first series of 6 elements was quite similar to the previous... and Puts' record details that the above batches included "SFK" items = Scalloped Focusing Knurl as in the 7 elements) Edited September 14, 2013 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodor Heinrichsohn Posted September 15, 2013 Share #12 Posted September 15, 2013 (edited) AFAIK the last batch of DR was the one built for the M2-R. All 7-lenses, chrome, last serial n. of this batch was 2235800. Are you sure about the 2235......? I heard ( in Tokyo ) long ago that the series started with 235.... I also heard that all 235..... series were the 7 element type, no 6 elements. Teddy Edited September 15, 2013 by Theodor Heinrichsohn Wanted to add the information on 7 and 6 elements Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted September 15, 2013 Share #13 Posted September 15, 2013 Little misunderstanding, Teddy, I confirm the data from Luigi, the last batch of year 1969 was the one for M2-R, all seven elements indeed. best regards. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloanfiske Posted September 16, 2013 Author Share #14 Posted September 16, 2013 thanks for all the input. based on the images from this lens vs. the 70's version, its lower contrast (but in a good way) and colors render a little different. i like them both for different reasons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeswe Posted September 19, 2013 Share #15 Posted September 19, 2013 My DR Summicron has a serial no. in the 2357xxx range and I can confirm it has the normal 7 lens optical cell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted September 19, 2013 Share #16 Posted September 19, 2013 So it is... I beg to differ. Luigi, the dual range Summicron to the best of my knowledge never employed radioactive glass. That is only true for the collapsible Summicron, which despite having 7 lens elements, too, has a different optical computation than the later 7 element rigid Summicron, of which the dual range is a variant. The rigid Summicron 50 was marketed about three years after the first, collapsible Summicron, but production numbers of the collapsible version were rather high at that time, and by 1957 (which is when the rigid was introduced) radioactive glass was long gone even in the collapsible version. The rigid and dual range Summicrons all had the same 7-element optical cell, up to the very end of production. There may have been, however, some variations in coating. Best, Andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 19, 2013 Share #17 Posted September 19, 2013 Err... That referred to the location of the thread.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 19, 2013 Share #18 Posted September 19, 2013 I beg to differ. Luigi, the dual range Summicron to the best of my knowledge never employed radioactive glass.... Best, Andy Right, I know... ... my phrase was not too clear: "all the Summicron DR have the 7 elements design, which had at least 3 different implementations..." "which" intended to refer in general to the 7 elements design in itself, not to the DR... (truth is that I like a lot, expecially with a Forum newbie, to show that here one can find really deep knowledge... and so tend to amplify my answers... ;)) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloanfiske Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share #19 Posted September 19, 2013 (truth is that I like a lot, expecially with a Forum newbie, to show that here one can find really deep knowledge... and so tend to amplify my answers... ;)) Funny. I probably should have used the old radio call in line "Long time listener, First time caller" 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted September 20, 2013 Share #20 Posted September 20, 2013 (truth is that I like a lot, expecially with a Forum newbie, to show that here one can find really deep knowledge... and so tend to amplify my answers... ;)) Well, I guess we have accomplished that task ... . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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