LTM user best buy

[meatboy]

Hi,

Which Leica LTM would you recommend as best buy for someone who wants to use one not collect it. I get the feeling the IIIg is the pinacle of design but as so commands more $$. Is this the best as a user camera also?

I'm looking for something on a budget that the collectors have not forced the price up on but will be most user friendly.

I also have seen the IIIc and IIIf listed as good buying?

Thoughts

Tim

[earleygallery]

As you say the lllg commands higher prices, they aren't rare but there were fewer made and being the last of the line appeal most to collectors.

I would suggest a lllc or lllf - they have a more reliable and stronger design than earlier LTM's. The c's are cheaper. lllf's have flash sync although you often find earlier cameras with aftermarket flash sockets fitted.

Pair it with a 5cm Elmar f3.5 and you will have a fantastic piece of kit.

[meatboy]

Thanks James, So is the flash sync the only difference between the IIIc and IIIf? Seems these two are the way to go.

Thanks

Tim

[earleygallery]

Originally Posted by meatboy

Thanks James, So is the flash sync the only difference between the IIIc and IIIf? Seems these two are the way to go.

Thanks

Tim

Pretty much. There are some small design differences such as the shutter speed dial, and the sequence of speeds differs on certain models, but both lllc and lllf Black or Red dial models have a full range from T thru to 1/1000.

The lllg has an improved viewfinder with framelines for 50 & 90mm and parralax correction, it's also that much bigger than the other screw models (which is a big part of their attraction).

Let us know how you get on and what you eventually buy!

[Canfred]

Hi Tim , general consensus is older SM modles are best collected rather than used . ( I know I know many are still ine use ) The thing to do is to actually go and try shooting if you wear glasses there is a problem already. The exception is the IIIG it is the one I occasionally
pick up and use , it has a much better finder. Apart from this observation once you took out the M may it be the 3 or any other it is a different world. Some years back I bought the new version Summicron 50 in SM just so I was able to use the older bodies the only one worth while is the IIIG. Tim are you the person behind the Leica Club in Adelaide I used to get the News Letter?
Manfred

[jc_braconi]

Hi Tim,
I agree 100% with James.
Adding that as the IIIf was made in large quantities, availability and price make them attractive, more compact and lighter than the IIIg.
Cheers
JC

[luigi bertolotti]

Chosing a LTM for use in not a difficult choice, as You have seen consensus toward IIIc or IIIf is general: as an almost regular user of LTM, with IIIc and IIIf, I add personal insights :

- IIIf/IIIc give almost the same feel in use : IIIf looks a little newer and the shutter sounds better
- Besides flash sync, do not forget that IIIf OFTEN have self-timer: I evaluate this
- There are TWO models of IIIf : "Red Dial" and "Black Dial" : the color refers to the Flash sync scale ; RD are the most recent and have some different shutter speeds (25-50-75 instead of 30-40-60 of the BD) : some people say the RD shutter is "better" : anyway, both can be well maintained by a good lab.
- The "IIIg issue" : it costs more and has SURELY a better finder (framed 50 - 90 and anyway larger and brighter): if you chase with attention, can find at good prices items in not so good cosmetic : do not forget that IIIg is well maintainable, and high collector prices are cosmetic-dependent a lot.
- But, IN MY OPINION, IIIc/IIIf are NICER than IIIg : obviously a matter of personal taste, but the smaller body of c/f has a kindness partly lost in the bigger IIIg.
- Having a LTM with NO Elmar 50 3,5 is a "no-classic" approach : depends upon budget and willness to have other lenses: if one choose the "50 only" approach, having a Cron 50 rectratable can be very appreciated: but it can easily costs like a nice couple of Elmars 50+90 or Elmar 50 + Hektor 135 (good, cheap, superavailable).
- The limitation I feel with my IIIf is simple : want to go out with 2 lenses only ? the excellent 35+90 set goes right with M4/M2, has a little nonsense with LTM: never use the native Viewfinder...
- LTM ARE MASTERWORKS OF INDUSTRIAL DESIGN : an almost unique example of perfect "tech design" prewar-style. It's a pleasure to use them for this reason too.

[bill]

Tim, I went through this before Christmas and ended up with a IIIc, and never looked back. It not only does the job, but it does it with elegance and style. Mine came with a 35mm Elmar, and I have added a 50mm Summar and 90mm VC, although I hanker after a 50mm Elmar coll for the full experience.

Here's my IIIc and James' IIIf side by side at a recent meet in London. As James said, the differences are very minor. The main one I recall is that the IIIf shutter speed dial is slightly larger, and James' had a detent stop for the rewind lever that mine seems to lack. Other than that I don't ever intend to use flash, so I'm more than happy with the IIIc:

London Get Together 2.jpg

and here's an in-focus(well we were drinking!) shot of my IIIc:

My IIIc.jpg

Regards,

Bill

[luigi bertolotti]

...I forgot another tiny difference between IIIc and IIIf... the latter has a film-reminder on the winding knob.
I remember to have seen a picture of a very young Brigitte Bardot in some Cote d'Azur seaside, shooting with a IIIf - Summicron, it seemed.
And also a picture of Che Guevara with a IIIf WITH VISOFLEX and a big-glass-lens on it (Summicron 90 short mount or Hektor 125....not clear)

[stnami]

What about the III?

[stunsworth]

My advice to a non-Leica user thinking of getting a screw mount lens would be DON'T DO IT!!! My first Leica was a IIIC and it's cost me a _fortune_ since :-)

Seriously, I think a IIIC would be a good place to start. They plentiful, cheap and you have a good chance of getting one with a lens at a good price.

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by stnami

What about the III?

which III ?

A) IIIa and IIIb are prewar, different technolgy in body from subsequent models (no cast skeleton), collectibles of no great cost, usable but:
- if very fine, better to keep as collectibles
- if not so fine, cheap but probably heavily used, and not so maintanable;
B) IIIc is wartime and postwar, just scrutinized above
C) IIId exists, wartime very little production,super rare, supercollectible
D) IIIf : the last of the Classics, just scrutinized above

For the record, there are also the IIIa post-war-made-with-spareparts, assembled in France in the difficult years just after WWII end: the famous "Montè en Sarre" super rare supercollectible

[ChadHahn]

Don't forget about the IIf. This is the same as the IIIf only lacking the slow shutter speed dial.

On the IIf the shutter speeds go from 1/25th to 1/1000 plus bulb. How often do you need to go slower than that anyway?

The price is lower as well.

I have a IIf with collapsible Summicron that I like quite well.

Chad

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by ChadHahn

Don't forget about the IIf. This is the same as the IIIf only lacking the slow shutter speed dial.

On the IIf the shutter speeds go from 1/25th to 1/1000 plus bulb. How often do you need to go slower than that anyway?

The price is lower as well.

I have a IIf with collapsible Summicron that I like quite well.

Chad

Good idea: if one can save, say, 150 or 200 $/Euros choosing IIf instead of IIIf, it's surely convenient: and one can find a more-than-honest 90 or 135 with that money...

[meatboy]

Thank you all so much for your insight here. Particularly thank you to Luigi who seems to have been down this path and very knowlegeable

I currently have a Leica MP and 50mm cron and have used manual cameras like the OM1 before so I feel I can cope with the added requirements of the LTM machine.

I am buying partly to feed the collector in me but I am a camera user first and would like to experience using the 40s 50s style of Leica - it would get only light occasional use, maybe a few films a year. Cost is a factor but I think I could go to a IIIc. Bill you are correct I would not use flash with it anyhow.

I'll let you all know how I get on.

Thank you ALL again.

Tim

[stnami]

I would not use flash with it anyhow..... yea I'm in full agreement, why would anyone spoil a shot with a flash

[thomasw_]

get a barnack and try shooting just available light snaps. you will find it find it liberating and fun. I find the 5cm FL is the most suitable one on the barnack VF, though by no means the only one useable. I have a univeral VF, but I prefer my IIIc VF so that the camera stays small and unencumbered.

my IIIc story is similar to Bill's. i love my barnack and my elmar 50mm/3.5; i recommend this combination highly.

[gambas]

IIIF w/ 50 Elmar -- 1:8 & play with speeds (ASA 400/DIN 27).